I've been mulling over the idea for this thread for a day or two now, and I feel like I finally have a good enough grasp of what I want it to be. If the mods think this is a shit idea, or isn't going to turn out well, go ahead and lock it.

Okay, so I made this thread because I thought people might want to see some dissenting opinions on their favorite bands, out of curiosity. It occurred to me today that I've hardly ever seen any criticism of my favorite band, but instead of devoting an entire topic to it I thought I'd make the discussion a bit broader so that anybody can participate. Here's how this is going to work: name a band you really, really like (preferably one that is pretty unanimously loved) and, if you want, point out a few things that you imagine somebody else wouldn't like about them; then we'll wait around for somebody else on the forum who doesn't like the band to see your post. That person can then (civilly) point out that they don't like the band, and explain why (this part is important, don't just respond to posts with "X band is shit"). Maybe we can get a debate going, and come to a mutual understanding of each other's opinions. Might be interesting for both sides of the fence.

A few more general guidelines: this isn't a regular "controversial opinions" thread so please don't post a bunch of bands you dislike if someone hasn't already made a post about them; also, realize that by posting in this thread, you're putting a band you love under scrutiny, so please don't read any further if you can't discuss this politely and without being a condescending dick. Posts don't need to go in order one after the other - that is, you don't need to wait around for a negative opinion before listing another band from a positive perspective.
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Okay, I'll start:
Lykathea Aflame
Kind of obvious if you know me, but this is my favorite band of all time. Their only album has a 97% average on the main website, and they're an extremely agreeable band overall. I think I'd like to see some negative opinions on them for once, though: for those of you who dislike them, what do you make of the synths? I also imagine that the contrast in mood could be a bit much at times for people. What do people who don't like Elvenefris think about it?

Isn't this basically an omnibus thread "Why all the hate for _"?

I have no idea how you got that impression from the original post. The bands he's talking about are your favorite bands that are preferably 'loved by most'.

Crimson Glory, at least for their first two albums only, is a band you basically don't see dissenting opinions for at all. Those familiar with my taste will know that I consider them quite a marvel for music, period. I'd like to see some sort of criticisms that go deeper than that they're a USPM band. Are there any fans of the genre (lovers of Queensryche and Fates Warning, for example) who dislike them or find them to be 'meh' in comparison? If so, why?

You're right, sorry.

I might be shunned for this, but I never liked Midnight's vocals. I'm not the biggest fan of wailing vocals, which is why I prefer vocalists like Matthias Blad from Falconer. I've also listened to some of "Astronomica," and though it's not the best of the band's representation, I just couldn't get it into it.


Now this might be kind of a debateable band, but I think Kalmah is a very well received band within the melodic death metal genre. What are some criticisms people have with this band? As much as I love them, I'm curious to know some other opinions.

Alright. I looked up your band, Lyathea Aflame. I took the time to listen to roughly 10 minutes of the album, about 3 or 4 minutes out of the first 3 tracks. I simply cannot bear to hear anymore. What I'm listening to sounds like a complete mess of all the most annoying sounds imaginable all slopped and smeared together aimlessly and uncoordinated. An absolute horrid mixture of dissonance and incoherent ideas. I hear no logical progression of melody from one second to the next, rather a shitstorm of improperly blended instrumentation with some awfully bad snare drum and ride cymbal blast patterns, which awkwardly jerk forward and backward and without the slightest refrain. I feel like the band is running over itself with it's unbridled haste. I'm completely unconvinced that the band took the time needed to break down the individual parts and build them into workable musical ideas, because I keep hearing random crashes, rim shots, and even hi-hat hits that go off at unnecessary moments and without proper accompaniment by the other instruments. To make matters all the more worse, we get a one dimensional singer who is only capable of making a pig-like, gutteral noise for each and every syllable that comes out of his mouth. No range, no melody, and no lyrics you can understand.

I've said more than enough. Now I'll let you respond.

^^ I quite like Lykathea Alflame but I can see why it would bother some people as some of your main points are things that I find the most enjoyable about the album. But I am curious if you're into death metal or grind at all? Also your comment about the vocals and lack of audible lyrics makes me think that you may not be.

I don't like the vocals either as they are too far into brutal territory, yet I love oldschool sounding death metal. I also like grind when the vocals aren't too 'brutal' either. Rotten Sound does the shouting very well for example.

By his distaste, it seems like it. Those first three tracks have a ton of melody in it, with some serene moments that actually show the band crafting brutal segments around it, rather than the other way. When he says he can't hear progression and that it's a bunch of jumbled ideas, that makes me go .


This part here is something I probably said when I first heard Arch Enemy's Black Earth back in 2005, or Enmity right now. But hey, we're talking about tastes in this thread. Lykathea Aflame's album was surprising to me, but I quickly warmed up to it as if it were easy listening.

That's a fair enough take on them. I feel like the flow of the melodies and riffs can take some time to get used to, but it never struck me as "illogical", personally. I feel like the drum performance is really nice, though, so I suppose I'd have to disagree with you there - it's very fast, yes, and blisteringly so, but it feels very nuanced and pretty. I've always loved ride cymbals and the fact that Lykathea Aflame practically spam them all over the place in their music isn't something I'd really complain about. I'm not sure where you're hearing dissonance in their music though, honestly - part of the reason they appeal to me is because they're always such a pretty band for death metal. They always struck me as very happy, melodic, inspiring - possibly one of the most consistently consonant death metal bands I've ever heard. And, I suppose I can't really defend the vocals; they're death metal vocals, and I feel like they're in a style that you either like or dislike immediately.

As another poster said, I get the feeling death metal isn't really your thing, but that's alright. It's still nice to see an outside perspective on the matter.

Vader
One of my favourite bands, and generally well liked I think. To me, all their albums are just solid. Genuine quality through and through, there's no bad parts in the songs or anything that sticks out. I'm especially fangirling over the albums with Doc, what a drummer! Such groove and feel. And Peter's vocals - quite unique and just so damn awesome.

Their covers are worth mentioning to, they've done quite a few. Generally, I'd say there are more bad covers than good ones out there, some are meh, alot are "why??". But Vader's, just like the rest of their material, they make them work, and they all sound unmistakingly Vader.

I want to you thank you for accepting that I have a much different opinion about this band than you do, or in fact all the other 20 reviewers who gave it awesome reviews. You say that the album is unanimously loved, but I think that's only because it's a very obscure album and the only people who would seek it out and bother to write a review are extreme, avid fans of death metal or grindcore. I usually tend to just avoid or ignore stuff I don't like, but you asked for a reason and I did my best to explain it, and again thank you for not denigrating me for expressing my honest, heartfelt opinion. You knew you were inviting negativity and you got it



Melodies that I feel really don't blend well together at all, as I feel that synthesizer is totally out of place with the sound of the guitars, which I also have a distaste for due to their excessive amount of distortion and legatos. I prefer crisp, clear tremolo picking and power riffs. I feel that there are WAY too many ideas going on simultaneously and that they are not working well with each other, and that the band needs to break them apart and develop each one into more clear, discernible musical ideas that can be played in unison, rather than having the drummer spasmodically going off in all sorts of crazy directions.

Well my favorite band is blind guardian, but they don't seem to (thankfully) get much hate, however if you do hate them and your a power metal fan what is your reason.

No "very obscure albums" has 20 reviews on the Archives, dude.

Listen to that track, it's amazing and one of the best conclusions an album can have: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzeGFkuVgrU

I don't hate them, but I do think plenty of people take a listen to them, Rhapsody of Fire and one or two songs by Freedom Call, HammerFall, etc. and then proclaim that every other PM band except Blind Guardian sucks. Which is pretty stupid.

Slough Feg - they're an amazing band. Love the lyrics, the riffing, Scalzi's deep vocals...everything. They're an honest true metal band with a real artistic bent and real creativity. Some people have said they don't like them because of how "happy" it is and "non-threatening." I dunno. If that's your criteria, I guess.

Eh that is stupid people would say that. (I am even a fan of Rhapsody of Fire) and those same people probably don't listen to USPM or much early german power metal. And nice band choice, Slough Feg is a really kickass band.

I've listened to the Lykathea album from start to finish a few times, and as much as I love Czech black metal (Root, Maniac Butcher, Master's Hammer) I've yet to really dig into their death metal bands. alot of it is just too "all over the place" if that makes any sense, I'd use the term progressive, but it's more avant-garde than just prog death metal... Though, to be fair, Elvenfris really deserves another thorough listen through before I decide if it's worth arguing against...
Anybody have any dislikes on another one of MA's most beloved bands, Anaal Nathrakh?

i worship at the altar of slough feg, seriously..i could listen to their discog from start to finish without skipping a song.

This is a band I could never get into. I find the vocals to fall flat in two dimensions - they're not strong in the way that most heavy/power metal vocalists, and, to reference two of their favorite bands, they're not appealing in the way that Manilla Road or Legend's vocals are. They lack the charismatic and almost welcoming feel of Mark Shelton's voice that fit Manilla Road's music perfectly - SF seem to have a guy who loves the music and sings as a secondary duty to playing guitar, but never developed a style that fit his band well. The other band to note is Legend, who they covered - Kevin Nugent had an extremely relaxed, laid-back voice that stepped the intensity of the music down a notch - there were huge riffs and a stellar drummer, and the vocals just pulled that back a bit to complete the jamming feel of their music. Nugent was a relaxed storyteller who gracefully narrated the viking-themed epics of his band. Mike Scalzi, to his credit, has carried his music through more unfriendly eras than glory days, but his vocals have always been unenjoyable to me. The band's riffing is hit or miss, and even though at many times it's more hitting than missing, it just doesn't resonate with me the same way so many other bands do.

While I haven't heard their whole discography, I must say that their cover of Legend's "The Wizard's Vengeance" loses the charm of the original - to Slough Feg, it's just a song, but to Legend, it was a legend with a feeling, a mood, an atmosphere that came together 100%.

I never got into SF either. Or Manilla Road. SF just always sounded flat and I'd get annoyed when they came up in Thin Lizzy-related discussions because they have nothing close to Phil Lynott's presence. Manilla Road has always sounded like a goofy bedroom metal band....like a kid listens to Iron Maiden and does an audio equivalent of fan fiction.

I mention Thin Lizzy because they are my favorite band...but since that's more hard rock, I guess it's not really here nor there. After them it's Motorhead and despite different production techniques, they tow the line as well.

^ I'm agreeing with Zodi on this one. Slough Feg's music is ok, but it feels tame. The real killer is the vocalist, though. He stinks, or maybe I should say his style is not my thing at all. Like on Traveller, the riffs are nice and all, but it sounds a little too restricted and Scalzi's singing doesn't have any hooks to it. I have the exact same problem with a guy like Lou Reed. Upon his death, I went to hear some of his stuff and the music isn't bad at all - his vocals suck ass. He had a whole career where he couldn't sing. Slough Feg's in the same position.

Manilla Road is in the same boat. Always lopsided production and unappealing vocals from the albums I've heard, but at least they're nailing it with their guitar skills.

I think you nailed it with that comment.

Guess I'll go with Symphony X.

Now, I really, really love SX, and not counting the debut and Twilight in Olympus, I wouldn't give any record in their discography a score below, say, a tight 80%. However, if you either have a strong dislike of groove-laden riffs and/or neo-classical shredding, then you will most certainly want to avoid their music. Personally, I think that both of those elements are singularly well handled in their compositions, mostly because Romeo is a brilliant guitar player and songwriter, but I wouldn't be all that surprised if someone still found them to be rather irksome, to say the least.

Nonsense. It's one thing to say it's not something you enjoy, it's another just to be willfully fallacious.



Again, objectively speaking, you guys are wrong. Say the hooks are bad or annoying, but they exist.

As good as that Legend album is, it's about half-filler. Slough Feg have never done a bad album in their career. Personally I'd say about half of their albums are absolute modern classics. Just the construction of the songs, the riffing - it's god-tier for the genre. Very well put together, imaginative, enjoyable, etc.

I'm obviously speaking for myself here. Just another way to say I think Lou Reed's and Scalzi's voices stink.

That's another thing, most music isn't objective (oh, we've had forum battles over this one).

Slough Feg were a band that took a lot of time for me to get into. Traveler was what finally sold me on them, as at the time I could really relate to that style of power metal. The other album of theirs I had listened to at the time was Down Among the Deadmen, and I just couldn't get into what I saw at the time as goofy folksy jaunts. Like someone mentioned earlier, they sounded too "happy", too "joyful". Of course there were some songs on their that I really liked Sky Chariots and Psyionic Illuminations, but overall I just didn't get the praise. But Traveler got it's hooks into me eventually, and over the years I have gotten into every single one of their albums. I've probably said that each and every one of them was favorite and one point or another. Hell, I didn't get into Atavism until last year.

As far as Scalzi's vocals stinking? I don't know, man. I can understand not liking them, but he's got a decent range and he can hit the notes.

Lou's voice is acquired taste so my beef isn't with you there, but you can't make the argument that Scalzi can't sing. It'd be along the lines of claiming he can't play guitar.



What on Earth are you talki



Oh.

About the claims of being too happy...maybe I've had to deal with too much euro power in my life, but Slough Feg doesn't sound overly cheerful to me at all. They're not fucking Slayer or Morbid Angel in terms of negativity, of course, but listen to some Stratovarius or Edguy before you go throwing around that dreadful word.

I got no issue with folksy jaunts. Skyclad with Martin is also some of my favorite music. Great, seething lyrics that stick immediately.

You have to admit, though. Slough Feg has got some shining moments, even if you aren't a huge fan. How can you not like the second half of Warrior's Dawn, for example. Personally, I love the whole thing but damn. That solo section has got to be one of my favorites ever.

Highfive Wayward Son!!!!! Asserting that MR is a Maiden bedroom band is completely ridiculous, not denying that MR were influenced by the Brits a little but come on...

Concerning Slough Feg, I think Mike's vocals are an acquired taste but I definitely like them, they're gritty, manly and pretty distinctive and there's plenty of hooks, guys. He's definitely a guitarist first and foremost but I always enjoyed his vocals and especially his lyrics.

I'd like to tackle Opeth since they're my favourite band. I know they have plenty of detractors on the board, many people think they're boring and that their songs are too long and I can understand that. They were one of my gateway bands and are still very important for me, I still revisit the first two albums often since they're landmarks of progressive and emotional metal with sweet leads but I'm not that fond of the post Still Life stuff anymore.

My biggest issue with Manilla Road is probably Shelton and Hellroadie. I just can't fucking stand their voices at all, they're too nasally and warbly and seem to have so little power behind them most of the time. When Mark does that snarl thing, it can work, and I really liked the soothing "The Fountain" on the newest album, but generally his voice only works with that kind of downtempo acoustic song, and not against the epic heavy metal they usually do, because in the old days they sounded dorky and ill fitting and nowadays they sound old and bored. Plus a lot of the riffs just fall flat and do nothing at all for me unless they're in the faster range. All of their mid paced stuff just bores me to tears. They have some good ideas, catchy melodies, and great guitar work (every solo Shelton does is just incredible), but the good elements don't overpower the bad ones for me.

Anyway, for one I'd like to see: Melechesh - I'm not personally the biggest fan of the newest album, nor the more normal debut, but the three middle albums seem to be pretty universally praised, particularly Sphynx and Emissaries. The middle eastern influences never feel tacked on and corny like Orphaned Land or something, and the blend of black/death/whatever metal just seems to work so magnificently. I love those two albums to death but I'm curious to see if anybody hates them and why.

It depends on the album/period IMO.

WASP's the crimson idol and the headless children are a favorite of mine, I would love a constructive argument of why you hate these albums.

Exigence, you may find this link helpful: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_burn_centers_in_the_United_States

I'll bite on Lykathea Aflame.

For one, those fucking drums, oh my god. I'll agree that there's loads and loads of really inspired playing, and I actually kind of like that BDM trashcan snare sound in this context. However, it bugs me to no end that the bass drums are some of the most egregiously over-triggered, clicky ass-drums in the history of everything considering how organic the whole rest of the drum performance is. I think I'd actually be less annoyed if they just had crappy programmed drums than ones that are ALMOST awesome but then fucked up in such an obvious and obnoxious way. Like was already pointed out, I sometimes find their riff transitions to be overly jarring despite the fairly consistent adherence to their strict and unique sense of melody. Finally, and most importantly, I feel like that very same sense of melody is dragged through the gutter by the band's grind/brutal death metal-isms. I think the band would be a hell of a lot more enjoyable for me if their more overtly metal elements were some more melodic form of death and/or black metal; though I'm not really anywhere near as interested in brutal death metal on the whole as I am other sorts of extreme metal, to me it's particularly incongruous mixing a subgenre that thrives in ugliness and an emphasis on rhythms over melody with a "gimmick" that's basically purely melodic in nature. And yeah, the vocals are a big part of that. Gurgles and burps with happy-go-lucky Middle Eastern major key guitar lines? Bah.

Hmm...now for a favorite for others to trash. I was thinking about picking Lustre, but I've heard lots of undeniably valid complaints about them from people who just aren't really into their style, so that wouldn't be very interesting. So how about a slightly lesser-known favorite? Australia's Innsmouth are absolutely fucking phenomenal as far as I'm concerned. Bludgeoning but catchy as hell riffs, just enough of a blackened edge to impart a huge sense of atmosphere without detracting from the crushing riffery, perfect distant growling vocals, wonderful melodies and superbly-written songs. Here's a sample to make your lampooning easier:

Even as someone who actually does like a fair amount of Opeth, my biggest beef with them is that Akerfeldt just isn't a very good songwriter. It's a little hard to explain and it's not that their songs are too long, but rather that they have a bad habit of combining sequences that don't make much sense together and rarely construe anything that's truly memorable. The only tracks of theirs that feel like honest to God songs to me are The Grand Conjuration, Harvest, and about half of Damnation. The rest of it just blurs together for me.

I also hate the fact that Opeth seemed to have lost the plot completely following quite promising beginnings.

How can someone take solid death metal and classic prog rock, mix em together and end up making bland watered down music ?

And what happened to the classic sounding songs with hooks ? I wish they had built on Demon of the Fall.

I left in the Manilla Road part because it's an exact duplicate of my own thoughts, but onto Melechesh!

I don't hate those albums at all, but I'm definitely lukewarm on them at best. The easiest complaint is the vocals. I find them screechy, completely annoying yet not powerful in the slightest, and the grating nature of them leaves them useless as something catchy. Possibly related to the vocals is the bigger problem I have, musically they tend to stop being cool soon as they start using vocals. This is an issue I also had with The Chasm when they were promising too. Basically when they're doing instrumental parts their riffs are exotic, intricate and unique, but whenever they get into "we're writing an actual song" mode the hold back far too much and lack that unique flair, and with those shitty vocals being at the forefront it gets pretty annoying for me. I love, love some of their instrumental parts (Caravans to Ur is probably my favourite song of theirs), but the songs as a whole aren't worth the painful investment.

As for one of my own, I'll go with my obvious favourite band, Esoteric. Obviously people have some issues with the album/song lengths, but I've never really encountered any complaints about the actual sounds they create and ideas. I'd like to see someone tackle that side of the equation moreso than the first one.

It's been a while since the last time I've listened to Opeth. All I remember of the band is how boring they sound, & since i'm really into the proggy & experimental, that's saying something.

I actually think this is a fairly apt and beautiful description. This works both as a reason for you not to like them and a reason for me to adore them.

There are an awful lot of metal bands that sound like Iron Maiden, from eager US bands C. 1984 jumping on the bandwagon to modern copycats. Some bands with a high amount of maiden influence are really, really good (read early Fates Warning), while others the world could definitely do without.
And if there's one heavy metal band that doesn't sound even remotely like Iron maiden...it's Manilla Road. It's cool that you dont' like them Exitence, but c'mon now. The two bands are contemporaries of each other so maybe they share some of the same influences (Rush, uFO), but you couldn't ask for two bands further away from each other on the heavy metal sonic spectrum otherwise.