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JT Rager
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Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2011 12:44 am
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 5:16 pm 
 

I'm listening to Intronaut right now and all I can say is the interplay between Joe Lester's bass and Danny Walker's drums is incredible. It's technical, heavy, and even groovy at times. At this point, I'd honestly call their section unmatched in metal.

What rhythm sections do you think are the best?
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Temple Of Blood
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 8:43 pm 
 

Gotta be Keyser/Colacula from WATCHTOWER for starting the whole prog metal thing and inspiring so many.

Kudos also to Malone/Reinert for their untouchable writing and playing on "Focus".

You did make me more curious about INTRONAUT though.
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Awblaster
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 10:56 pm 
 

Bill Ward and Geezer Butler circa 1970. Groovier than pretty much everyone since. In this video especially, they're so tight, and even when they're jamming out fills, it's all right on the money.

Nicko McBrain and Steve Harris as well. There's a great part of Nicko's Rhythms of the Beast video where he's talking about the drum part for the main riff of Where Eagles Dare, and the way he worked it out and the effort he put in really shows why they're pretty much untouchable.
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Frank Booth
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 12:43 am 
 

Got a few:

Dave Culross/Derek Boyer (Suffocation)
John Longstreth/Mike Flores (Origin)
Lille Gruber/Jacob Schmidt (Defeated Sanity)
Dan Osborn/Josh Welling (Inherit Disease)
Blake Anderson/Frank Chin (Vektor)
Giulio Galati/Stefano Franceschini (Hideous Divinity)
Michel Langevin/Jean-Yves Theriault (Voivod)
Davide Billia/Jacopo Rossi (Antropofagus)

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PvtNinjer
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 1:08 am 
 

Some good ones already mentioned, I'm gonna throw swedish prog metal band Andromeda into the mix. I'm somewhat hesitant to do so because I don't really recall the bass being anything special, but Thomas Lejon has got to be one of the most creative and clever drummer's I've ever heard. His drumming is a huge part of what makes they're fairly typical prog metal stand out. It's very fluid and organic, and he doesn't do a lot of the stilted, mechanical type of stuff some prog bands fall into. It's all, for the most part, pretty conventional, but he throws a lot of interesting flourishes and accents. His cymbal work, especially, is pretty remarkable.

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Nochielo
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 2:11 am 
 

Off the top of my head, Roger Patterson/Steve Flynn (Atheist) are surely among my favorites. Raw talent in spades. Eric Langlois/Flo Mournier are probably up there too. Will definitely agree with the Geezer/Ward mention, those were some crazy grooves.
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Postemortem
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 2:34 am 
 

Meshuggah. Just Haake's crazy polyrhythmic drumming alone would be enough for them to qualify, but Thordendal and Hagstrom's guitar work compliments it seamlessly. Even Kidman's vocals are done in such a way that they appear to be part of the rhythm. Hell, the entire band is basically one big, strange rhythm section.

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Frank Booth
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 9:37 am 
 

Oh, and as far as dead/defunct rhythm pairs go, Gar Samuelson and Dave Ellefson were a top-notch pair.

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Jasper92
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Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2012 10:39 am
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 11:35 am 
 

Frank Booth wrote:
Oh, and as far as dead/defunct rhythm pairs go, Gar Samuelson and Dave Ellefson were a top-notch pair.


I was thinking this one too. Dave can also be a real good rhythm guitar player.

I like these albums/bands too in terms of rhythm:

I really like the audible bass en the tight drumming.


This drummer is just ridiculous good.

Also Sepultura has a tight rhythm section. At least on Arise and Beneath (which I'm the most familiar with). Not only the bass and drums are really good but also the rhythm guitar parts deserve some credits imo.

Saw Carcass live a few months ago. And they were playing super tight. Jeff and Ken were good, but Daniel does a great job as well.

I think also Paul Mazurkiewicz and Alex Webster became a good rhythm section. It's funny because on Eaten Back To Live Paul is sloppy as hell sometimes. But I like how you really can hear progression in CC albums.
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somefella
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 12:41 pm 
 

Eaten Back To Life is indeed kinda sloppy but Paul has really stepped up his game and he is one of the tightest drummers around, just not as flamboyant or extreme as his peers like Roddy, Talley or Kollias.
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Frank Booth
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 1:19 pm 
 

The thing with Paul Mazurkiewicz is that he's still a thrash drummer at heart and thus adheres to the "KISS" (Keep It Simple, Stupid) principle that a lot of thrash drummers had.

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Abominatrix
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 1:44 pm 
 

Timi Hansen and Kim Ruzz of early mercyful Fate, of course. Kim had a real smart yet losse drumming style, and Timi's bass just slotted perfectly into every groove, with a really crisp, clean and totally audible sound. My friend says Don't Break the Oath is one of the most fun records to play on bass and I believe him.

Moving forward a bit, Carl-Michael and Skol on the Ved Buens Ende album have some phenomenal interplay. The bass just dances all around those intuitive yet challenging drum lines in a most captivating way at all times, and again, the sound of both kit and four-string is perfect.
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Tron_79
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Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2012 1:30 pm
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 2:02 pm 
 

Nochielo wrote:
Off the top of my head, Roger Patterson/Steve Flynn (Atheist) are surely among my favorites. Raw talent in spades. Eric Langlois/Flo Mournier are probably up there too. Will definitely agree with the Geezer/Ward mention, those were some crazy grooves.


Yeah, to me Atheist is at the top of the list. On an individual level they were great, but combined they were just as good and created such good jazzy rhythms
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Samoroth
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 3:13 pm 
 

Martin Mendez/Martin Lopez.

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PvtNinjer
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 3:14 pm 
 

Agreed about Atheist. The re-issue of Unquestionable Presence has a rhythm track only as one of the bonus tracks (can't remember which track, specifically, maybe the title track?), it's pretty wild.

This might be a strange one to put forth, but I think Varg did a pretty great job with the bass and drums on the early Burzum stuff, when he was still a bit more riffy and Celtic Frost influenced. It's nothing amazing or technical, but I find they really add a nice dimension to pretty simple tunes that make them much more than meets the eye.

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Mojo Bundy
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 3:36 pm 
 

Cannibal Corpse was an immediate thought for me too. The assessment of Mazurkiewicz as having honed his resolutely simplistic style into something really tight and powerful rings true for me as well. I love the way that he frequently locks in super tight with the guitar riffs, and Alex can just go to town on his inimitable bass insanity. The consistency, yet subtle development, over the course of CC's discography is pretty astounding.

Steve DiGiorgio playing with either Reinert or Hoglan is also worthy of mention here.

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Postemortem
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 4:00 pm 
 

Speaking of Steve DiGiorgio, Quo Vadis comes to mind, as well. Yanic Bercier's precise, technical drumming is great alongside DiGiorgio's always fantastic bass playing.

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Kveldulfr
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 4:18 pm 
 

Some other worthy mention is the duo of Asgeir Mickelson and Lars Norberg. The only Spiral architect album is a total mindfuck of virtuosity. Stuff like Insect and Spinning is really weird yet fluid as water. They were also responsible for the rhythm section of the 3 first Ihsahn albums. After is especially great in that sense. Austere is a monster of a track.

Asgeir also recorded 2 great albums for Vintersorg with Steve Di Giorgio on bass. There you can find the best tone SDG has ever recorded with really beautiful basslines.

Duo Erik Tiwaz - Mickelson did a couple of great albums with Borknagar (Empiricism and Origin).

Finally, Asgeir recorded both fretless bass and drums for Borknagar's Epic album, where both performances are truly incredible.
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HorrorMetal
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Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2010 2:14 pm
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 2:10 am 
 

Mojo Bundy wrote:
Steve DiGiorgio playing with either Reinert or Hoglan is also worthy of mention here.

I came here to mention this. Individual Thought Patterns has one of the best rhythm sections I've ever heard. It's like DiGiorgio's bass playing and Hoglan's drumming were made for eachother. Their combined talents makes for a phenomenal sound. I really wish they could have done more together.
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e_ddi_e
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Joined: Fri Sep 18, 2009 9:00 am
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Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 6:08 am 
 

Steve Shelton / Cary Rowells from Confessor and Loincloth.

The entire Condemned album is just pure master class.

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Sonofabitch Thirdgeneration
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2013 1:02 pm
Posts: 274
PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 9:33 am 
 

Mojo Bundy wrote:
Cannibal Corpse was an immediate thought for me too. The assessment of Mazurkiewicz as having honed his resolutely simplistic style into something really tight and powerful rings true for me as well. I love the way that he frequently locks in super tight with the guitar riffs, and Alex can just go to town on his inimitable bass insanity. The consistency, yet subtle development, over the course of CC's discography is pretty astounding.

Paul Mazurkiewicz is a metronome that cant go above 200 bpm, nothing special about him

Some old school thrash metal bands like Metallica, Slayer, Megadeth and Kreator are very tight rhythm players. James Hetfield is like totally a machine when it comes to rhythm guitar, he can go way over 200 bpm without missing a single beat (songs like Hate Train go like 230 bpm at best), Trujillo's bass playing is tight as well and Lars is good enough to keep up the beat.
Dave Lombardo was always an incredibly tight drummer and Kerry King's rhythm guitar never misses a beat, which is a lot more than I can say about Jeff Hanneman or even Gary Holt.
Dave Mustaine is obviously awesome at both rhythm and lead and he's always picked his musicians well, Megadeth's rhythm section has been super tight from day one.
Kreator were really sloppy in the early days but they've evolved so much since then, Mille is incredible at both rhythm and lead and Ventor whose drumming was all over the place on albums like Pleasure to Kill is now practically a robot. A very hard hitting robot.
Oh yes and Iced Earth, Jon Schaffer is probably the only rhythm guitarist in the world who can legitimately upstage James Hetfield and nothing wrong with the rest of the band either.

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LVB
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Joined: Sat Sep 20, 2008 11:26 am
Posts: 142
PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2014 11:00 am 
 

Seriously guys... Hank Shermann/Michael Denner! The 80's material was in a class of its own and a world apart from every other Metal band in terms of "rhythm sections."

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Terri23
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Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2010 3:53 am
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2014 12:59 pm 
 

LVB wrote:
Seriously guys... Hank Shermann/Michael Denner! The 80's material was in a class of its own and a world apart from every other Metal band in terms of "rhythm sections."


:lol: You clearly have no idea what a rhythm section is.
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druivo
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Joined: Wed Mar 05, 2014 10:15 am
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 2:39 pm 
 

Awblaster wrote:
Bill Ward and Geezer Butler circa 1970.


This.

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thrashinbatman
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2014 12:10 am 
 

I'm gonna throw out Eddie Jackson and Scott Rockenfieldd from Queensryche. The two are ridiculously tight together. They're a huge part of why Operation: Mindcrime is so good.

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Gus Kiriakis
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2014 7:05 am 
 

Hoglan/DiGiorgio on Death's Individual Thought Patterns. Just insane.
Voivod's Langevin/Thériault. Amazing musicianship.
Menza/Ellefson with Megadeth. Especially Rust in peace.
Greenbaum/Choy on Atheist's Elements. Respect.
Schwichtenberg (RIP)/Grosskopf on Helloween's earlier works.

And of course Ward/Butler. \m/
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dontlivefastjustdie
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 2:29 pm 
 

Awblaster wrote:
Bill Ward and Geezer Butler circa 1970.

I'll submit that they were even tighter in '75 and the Dio years. One of the greatest rhythm sections in the history of heavy metal, no doubt.



Not entirely metal but you can't fuck with Thin Lizzy's rhythm section. Lynott and Downey operated on a level few bands achieve.

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TrooperEd
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 6:14 pm 
 

Yea from 1970-80, or at least until Bill Ward got burnt out, no rhythm section in rock period was better than Geezer and Bill.


dontlivefastjustdie wrote:
Awblaster wrote:
Bill Ward and Geezer Butler circa 1970.

I'll submit that they were even tighter in '75 and the Dio years. One of the greatest rhythm sections in the history of heavy metal, no doubt.



Not entirely metal but you can't fuck with Thin Lizzy's rhythm section. Lynott and Downey operated on a level few bands achieve.




If Thin Lizzy are allowed on the archives, they're absolutely metal enough.

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MARSDUDE
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 6:19 pm 
 

Lots of great ones already posted.

One of my favourites is Manilla Road's Scott 'Scooter' Park and Randy 'Thrasher' Foxe
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Acrobat
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 7:01 pm 
 

dontlivefastjustdie wrote:

Not entirely metal but you can't fuck with Thin Lizzy's rhythm section. Lynott and Downey operated on a level few bands achieve.



If that's the Australian gig in 1979 you're linking then it's not Brian Downey on drums. :P
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MrMcThrasher II
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 8:06 pm 
 

Come on guys. It's clearly Anthrax. Ian on rhythm guitar, Bello on bass, and Benante on drums. Listening to Persistence Of Time will prove me correct.
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Twisted_Psychology
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 8:24 pm 
 

Terri23 wrote:
LVB wrote:
Seriously guys... Hank Shermann/Michael Denner! The 80's material was in a class of its own and a world apart from every other Metal band in terms of "rhythm sections."


:lol: You clearly have no idea what a rhythm section is.


I'll throw him a bone and say that Mercyful Fate does have a really good rhythm section in the form of Timi Hansen and Kim Ruzz. The drummer on In The Shadows was pretty solid too.
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PhilosophicalFrog
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 8:27 pm 
 

Oh my God yes. It's totally Ward and Geezer - just hold it the fuck down. "Heaven and Hell" is one of the best rhythm moments in history. No complexity, no gimmicks, just plain in your face heaviness. End of story.
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Ancient_Mariner
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 10:18 pm 
 

I'd go with Ward/Butler/Iommi. Crushing riffage, amazing basswork, and drums that just do everything to perfectly support the songs.

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Jonpo
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 10:44 pm 
 

People have heard it so much I think we tend to underplay how insane the rhythm work is on Iron Man. They change-up on a dime.
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druivo
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2014 6:58 am 
 

And it amazes me how Ward and Butler are somewhat underated as players.

Unfortunately i never got the chance to watch Bill Ward live, but i saw Sabbath last year and, holy shit, even in his 60´s Geezer Butler is a MONSTER of a bass player. His playing was unreal. Every metal bass player should aspire to sound a little like Butler, just like guitarists idolize Iommi (an idolization he FULLY deserves).

And every drummer that i know is crazy about Ward. I´m not a drummer, but i fucking love his playing. he is inventive, powerful, dynamic, fluid. Certainly a game changer drumming-wise.

ps: and yes, i cried during the show. :lol:

Seeing these guys play live was unforgettable. :headbang:

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dontlivefastjustdie
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2014 12:49 pm 
 

Acrobat wrote:
dontlivefastjustdie wrote:

Not entirely metal but you can't fuck with Thin Lizzy's rhythm section. Lynott and Downey operated on a level few bands achieve.



If that's the Australian gig in 1979 you're linking then it's not Brian Downey on drums. :P

Fuckin hell! It isn't is it?! Nauseef played the shit out of those songs.

I will rectify this with the penultimate live Thin Lizzy footage.

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Ancient_Mariner
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:07 pm 
 

druivo wrote:
And it amazes me how Ward and Butler are somewhat underated as players.

Unfortunately i never got the chance to watch Bill Ward live, but i saw Sabbath last year and, holy shit, even in his 60´s Geezer Butler is a MONSTER of a bass player. His playing was unreal. Every metal bass player should aspire to sound a little like Butler, just like guitarists idolize Iommi (an idolization he FULLY deserves).

And every drummer that i know is crazy about Ward. I´m not a drummer, but i fucking love his playing. he is inventive, powerful, dynamic, fluid. Certainly a game changer drumming-wise.

ps: and yes, i cried during the show. :lol:

Seeing these guys play live was unforgettable. :headbang:


Bill Ward doesn't play like a "metal drummer" on the early Sabbath stuff, of course there were no genre conventions for him to follow since they were writing the book at the time. His stuff is very dynamic and fluid as you stated which just makes it so amazing to listen to. Helps keep up the atmosphere that Iommi is churning out with the riffs.

Yeah Geezer is something else. Seeing the original Sabbath lineup at Ozzfest in the 90's was a dream come true.

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somefella
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 12:42 am 
 

I don't think Sabbath are underrated at all, they have earned every bit of the massive praise heaped on them.

I will say Megadeth too. While the Chris Poland/Gar Samuelson and Friedman/Menza eras are the most venerated (and rightly so), I'll go out on a limb and say they never had anything less than a rock solid rhythm section ever. Mustaine always picked masterful musicians to be in the band, and with good results. Slayer and Anthrax too, of course. Not Metallica haha. Lars can keep a beat in studio with some editing but nearly every video I see of him in any era, and me witnessing them live, was basically the rest of the band being able to quickly catch up with him whenever he makes a mistake (which was practically every bar when I saw them open with Hit the Lights. Awesome.)

Iced Earth. A whole band built around Schaffer's riffing with insane precision. Another case for the authoritarian band leader hehe.

Obviously Cannibal Corpse.

Hate Eternal. Considering the mad speeds and technical riffing, it's commendable how precise they are. Erik Rutan obviously demands even more out of his own band than those he produces, to his credit.

Not technically a rhythm section but Kevin Talley can play in any band and up their rhythm game by leagues. IMO the best drummers know how to insert some flamboyance into their performance without breaking the groove.
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Ilwhyan
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 8:43 am 
 

somefella wrote:
I don't think Sabbath are underrated at all, they have earned every bit of the massive praise heaped on them.
But it seems it's mostly for Ozzy (mainstream, also crediting him for the lyrics), songwriting and Iommi's riffs (metalheads). Team Butler & Ward seems to be overlooked even though their unbeliavably good interplay really makes Paranoid the brilliant album it is.
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