Is it just me or is the Quebec black metal scene overrated? For quite some time now, I've seen praises all around the net about how great the bands like Forteresse, Gris, Monarque, sombre foret and the general scene is but for me it falls pale in comparison with Europeans and south americans scenes in general. Even bands like Sorcier des glaces and Frozen shadows sounded derivatives and while not bad by themselves they just can't be at the level of the best of Emperor, Immortal, Darkthrone.

It's maybe irrational but I feel there's something lacking, a little spark that makes a difference between ordinary music and great music. like a am missing something?

For those who really like that scene, what make it so special for you? What makes it unique? What is the possible future of that ''trend''?

I'm living in Quebec right now and I have to say I love the black metal that comes from here. It's definitely a scene more based on atmosphere so I get that it's not for everyone, but no, fucking love this scene. There's a disproportionate amount of black metal that comes out of Quebec - the advanced search shows 324 bands from here and 155 from Ontario despite Ontario having around 5 million more people.

It's personally my favourite scene at the moment. I get its that its maybe not for everyone, but there are a ton of bands from the scene, namely Gris, that I find absolutely stunning. They tend to take a more atmospheric and softer approach to black metal, not totally unlike the Cascadian BM scene, but in more of a desolate and depressing direction rather than a nature inspired one, so I guess thats what makes it unique to me at least. I absolutely loved Gris' newest album, (quickly becoming one of my favourite albums of all time) and I would love to see that sort of theatric approach employed more in the future, where it almost sounds like the soundtrack to a movie of something.

Nothing in black metal has ever approached the level of Immortal, Emperor and Darkthrone. I don't know most of these other bands but Sorcier Des Glaces are excellent, Frozen Shadows I could take or leave. It's just like any other regional scene, a few decent artists and 9852684518315 "me too!" acts.

With SDG, despite being billed as "Cold primitive music" and allegedly based solely around atmosphere, I think they exhibit a fairly high degree of musicianship (at least on Puressence). Luc Gaulin is one of the few black metal drummers to make much use of accents, dynamics and tone in his playing.

Quebec has by far the best scene going in my opinion. All of the bands bring this natural, dense atmosphere without relying in goofy, tongue-in-cheek imagery. I guess the only way I can describe what makes QCBM so great is the feeling you get. Its a very special sort of mood that I can't find elsewhere.

With this are you talking about Gris only, or do you mean "they" as in "the softer approach is typical of a ton of bands from Quebec"? If you're suggesting that it is the leading sound of Quebec black metal, I disagree. For every Gris or Wendess that plays the softer Cascadian style, there's raw aggressive Monarque or Akitsa too. Also bands that are atmospheric yet heavy, like Ur Falc'h and Frozen Shadows. So I don't think there is a general Quebec style of black metal.

Of course if you only meant to discuss Gris, never mind what I said

Immortal, Darkthrone and Emperor are pioneers of the genre: of course they are good. But what's special about Quebec BM scene? Except a few older
bands, it's fairly new and they seem to be a tight-knitted community. Most of the bands that are praised around the globe are bands that started out in
the nineties. Speaking of those bands you mentioned, Monarque, Forteresse, Gris and Sombres Forêts (they get the most international recognition), they
do each have a specific sound and if you dig a little bit more you'll find that a whole scene carrying that same flame. The use of french language is also
inherent to the scene, that's probably why they get a lot of echoes in France and Europe.

I'm pretty big on the scene though I can certainly understand how it's not for everyone. I generally have a soft spot for black metal with powerful, stirring melodies, and the Quebecois bands tend to have really compelling takes on how to incorporate melody into black metal. While lots of the bands play at similar paces to other melody-centric regional sounds (like Finnish BM) the melodies in Quebecois BM tend to be slower-moving and more minimalist but, in the best cases, no less powerful. If you're more interested in pure aggression or thrashy riffage or something, then it just might not be your thing.

I love TRAILS OF ANGUISH. Their MCD "Relentless abhorrence of misery's grievance" is a brilliant piece of fast and desperate black metal artistry. Just found out they released another EP which I've never heard of, but it's on top of my "to buy" list now.

I haven't actually listened to a load of Quebecois bands. Forteresse though are quite violent indeed and not at all soft or laid back like Gris, so there's definitely a lot of disparity in the scene as has already been mentioned... stuff like Akitsa is different again, with a raw and punky approach rather than a subtly folky and blast-heavy one like that of FOrteresse.

I don't have a great opinion on the scene at large because I just haven't listened to enough bands. I liked Frozen SHadows' album years ago but found it quite derivative of Emperor, only with less distinctive riffs. Even so, there was something compelling about it. I really enjoy some of Thesyre's stuff, and the Gris debut (which hardly anyone talks about) was a really stirring listen turing a mushroom trip some years back.

Ive never heard anyone say they are fans of the scene. I agree they arent great, but not overrated.

Yes, you're right. Around 1999-2000 I was very enthusiastic about Quebecquois black metal scene for many reasons:
- coming from Northern snowy lands
- using the French language
- having a strong nationalist, "extreme right wing" stance.

I praised the Quebecquois scene as one of the best, supported bands like Frozen Shadows, Akitsa and downloaded obscure drum-machine-assisted-one-man-bands' demos like the Atroce/Unheilvoll split-tape. Basically I was attracted to anything that was NS or pro-NS, using a French name and hailing the true black metal tradition. Then time operated a selection, my interest grew down, my Quebecquois bands' CDs collected dust and I realized that all those bands were not so great. The same exact phenomenon happened with the German scene, but I still think that the German scene has more better bands and releases than Quebec.

The Quebecquois scene suffers from this: it looks cold, it reads evil, it sounds dark, but in the end it's just a lure. Minimalism hides lack of inspiration; amateurism is disguised as purism*. The Quebecquois scene has a kind of touristic identity. When you scrape the postal card, nothing solid remains.

I think Akitsa had an influential role internationally, and from videos I've watched, they're great on stage, but I couldn't listen to one of their albums in full. They seem unable to sort out their own works to keep only the best.

In the end I can sum up Quebec black metal to this formula: French evil-wannabe bandname and songtitles, two riffs per song, no bass, a drum-machine and snowy landscape cover art. I can live without it.


* For example, take Arnstadt. Bandmembers posing in front of Celtic cross flag, music with raw production, decent riffing, shrieking vocals... But the drums are so fucked up that the whole first full-length is ruined (if you can't play a blastbeat properly, then it's better not to record anything at all before practising enough). I just wonder who still listens to their material today?

...you should know that what the scene is now, post-2006, is very different from what it was back then. You should listen to Monarque, Neige Éternelle, Sombres Forêts, Gris, Forteresse's lastest releases, just to name a few known bands.

What? There are dozens of post 2000 black metal albums that beat Immortal on their best day.

Dozens, eh? I dare you to name 5.

Yep, just name 5 at least and let us laugh.




I don't know if it's really "different" but it can only have gotten worse. I like early Akitsa better than their lastest songs/releases. And I doubt Forteresse has become interesting only because they now have a full live band with a drummer.

"Gris", "Sombres Forêts", "Neige Éternelle", could anyone find cheesier and more cliché'd bandnames? I'm long tired of bandnames and songtitles that seem directly translated from Norwegian/English into French as ersatz from the 90's classics. No more Eternal Winter Dark Forest, please.

As I said, I'm not interested in this scene anymore, only Akitsa on stage is interesting.

Well, these are indeed pretty standard band names, I give it to you... but how does this affects the music?

Sure, "Pagan Assault" and "Anthropophobe" off the top of my head.

As a rule, when a band is uninspired about its own name, songtitles and lyrics, there's a great chance that the music will be uninspired too.

I tend to avoid any band who uses unoriginal images or concepts, that's one of my selection criteria. There's such a flood of black metal bands today that selection is primordial.

You forgot "Hippie Nazi". My best bandname by far

When Gris, Sombres Forêts, Monarque and Neige Éterenelle released new albums during a pretty short period of time earlier this year it opened up my eyes to the Quebec scene. I had heard of some bands from the scene, but never actually heard any.
I don't think they sound at all derivative of the Scandinavian bands, the sound and song structure is completely different, and the style relies much more on sombre melodies than abbrasive riffs. I suppose one could say they have something in common with the more atmospheric bands like some of Burzum's albums or early Satyricon, but I think it's in an entirely different way. The Cascadian scene seems more derived from Burzum (or other Norwegian bands for that matter) than the Quebec bands do, in my opinion.

Didn't know these bands and I typed Anthropophobe on youtube... the album preview is worth a listen:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmXDZ6gsSp8

Unoriginality may come in a package, I also give it to you and I do have such opinions on bands I dislike, but overall I prefer to judge the music as the main criteria. And how do you cross
the line between a truly genuine piece of art and a truly good album? Does art has to entirely reinvent itself and break any heritage from the past? I tend to think that bands have to find a way to create something new with their heritage and own DNA. Yeah, this is difficult sometimes in a inherently conservative genre (the whole idea of being "true")...

Anyway, isn't it wise to say don't judge a book by its cover?

Whore of Bethlehem
The Most Ancient Ones
Mirium Occultum
Blood Libels
Magnificent Glorification of Lucifer

Here you are, random black metal albums in completely different stylistics from completely unrelated scenes. Bonus points for "Immortal clone" there, please.

No it isn't.

Don't say no, we have never heard such a skillful musicianship and game-changing composition, haven't we?

That's sarcasm, right?

It is;)

You probably haven't heard much black metal if you think there are no bands who are even come close to Darkthrone and Emperor. Though I could understand if you think like those two are the best ever, but Immortal....just no.

For what I know, the NS black metal scene from Quebec is pretty much dead now. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
Akitsa gets really old fast. I once had cds from them but I sold them. I don't know any Quebec band with a really evil vibe. Some try it like monarque, but only to fall flat on their faces. Others are more melancholic or patriotic (1837 rebellion) but they lack some sense of mystery. It's generally too tame for black metal music. Gris is just carnival music for people who think their are special and crazy but are just ... ordinary.

Quebec is a province that has forever been craving its own identity and to distinguish themselves from the rest of Canada, with their requests woefully unheeded. A referendum in 1995 that would have gave Quebec sovereignty was literally as close as it possibility could have been without being a tie, failing by a couple thousand of votes. I know for a fact Metantoine feels pretty strongly about these sort of things and probably knows a hell of a lot more than I do about this, so I eagerly await his noticing of this thread.

The scene takes the concepts rooted in DSBM; minimal, slow to mid-paced songs, hale production, a hopeless, withering sort of depression through a black metal aesthetic and gives them the passionate melodic touch fueled by Quebecois nationalism. It makes what previously sounded laughable and immature in pure DSBM bands much more genuine and powerful. Add a little dose of bitter punk, and the diverse well of musical talent in Quebec (Montreal, more specifically has one of the best music scenes in the world) and I think a lot of those bands have a fresh take on the genre. If it's not your thing, okay, but it ain't gonna stop me from emptying my bank account into Sepulchral Records.

It's "Quebecois" not "Quebecquois", KFD. And you should listen to your own stuff if you want to find uninspered stuff. You're critcising names like Sombres Forêts but your label is Soleil Blanc (truly inspired, right!!!!). Give us a break.

And I don't really know what you want me to say, RapeTheDead. I praised the scene at numerous occasions before but I'm a bit bored by it right now (but I'm mostly bored by most black metal these days...). I feel the whole nationalist and patriotic schtick is getting old and I'm happy there's a certain renewal in the sound with bands like Gevurah (that I reviewed).



I always liked Utlagr too, a shame they broke up, cool paganic bm.

I would say that most black metal bands in Quebec are simply patriots but definitely not extreme right-winged or national-socialist. As an immigrant, I have been to a lot of black metal shows and talked to many band members over the years. Nobody I have ever met is racist or anything close to that while many European NSBM bands really are. One should not forget that this province has always fought for its cultural survival over the past centuries and that they are basically 8 millions Francophones surrounded by 350 millions Anglophones. Especially the northern parts of Quebec are still separatist as 99% of the people there are white Francophones (apart of the First Nations communities). On the other side, the province needs a lot of immigrants and most of those who live in Quebec integrate very well and definitely want to live there as well. It's not easy to immigrate there as there is a hell load of paper work to do and you need to have a lot of capacities to be accepted by both the provincial and the federal government.

The image of Anglophone immigrants who destroy the province's culture is still alive in these isolated regions but it's slowly changing as well and people tend to think like this because they are ignorant and not because they are really racist. I have never met more sympathetic people than in the northern parts of Quebec as at Lac-Saint-Jean, in Saguenay, at Côte-Nord and so on and most of these people were positively surprised to see an immigrant like me speaking French and not English and adoring and even sharing their culture. When I met some of these people, they were sceptical but quickly changed their minds. I still hear a lot of stereotypical talking about Asian and African immigrants but even that's changing. Small African communities are slowly establishing. I have a few friends from Côte-Nord who said that they had never seen black people in their everyday lives in their home town until they went to college six or seven years ago and now, a few years later, there are already small communities of a dozen Africans or more and these people integrate very well. You can see black and white people go ice fishing, driving snowmobiles, playing bowling and celebrating Saint-Jean-Baptiste Day together while both still preserve some of their very own rituals as well. People from Quebec also adore to discuss about their culture and politics with immigrants. Once I have talked for almost one hour with a Quebecker in his late fifties or so who was a fervent separatist and discussing with me who is more federalist. We had quite opposite opinions but we were both really impressed by each other's knowledge instead of yelling at each other as it might happen in other countries. In the end the man thanked me and said he didn't have such an interesting discussion with somebody in years and I actually quite felt the same.

I think that this changing and dynamical society also influences the black metal scene. A lot of recent band sing about inspiring nature, religion or suicidal experiences and while some patriotic elements are kept, this lyrical topic becomes less important, especially in the province's southern parts.

There are so many inspirations any way. Let's mention the harsh but inspiring long winter and the fact that life isn't always easy in northern countries or provinces. I don't want to sound cliché but many band members I have talked to said that several of their tracks are also inspired by the loss of some of their friends due to suicide. A close friend from northern Quebec once told me that everybody he knows in fact knows several persons who committed suicide. In Germany, I absolutely know nobody who committed suicide and I know quite a lot of people. These dark elements also contribute to a strong black metal scene.

If you are looking for some good and more recent black metal bands, try out these:

Cryptik Howling (Rouyn-Noranda, since 2002) - they play melodic symphonic black metal
Triskèle (Saguenay, since 2002) - atmospheric pagan black metal
Nocturnal Excision (Saguenay, since 2006) - atmospheric black metal
BlackScorn (Montreal, since 2007) - typical underground black metal
Putamen Insula (Montreal, since 2008) - they are among my favourites
Erimha (Montreal, since 2010) - they could really become one of the most popular new extreme metal bands
The Wild Hunt (Montreal, since 2011) - they play both death and black metal

etc.

^
Damn, for once in my life I had the desire to straight up go with "cool story, bro".

I like the approach Monarque take: while their music is still more on the atmospheric side and doesn't differ much from the general scene sound, the concept is more akin to traditional evil black metal which definitely results in a different feeling for me during listening. Lys Noir would probably be in my top 10 of 2013 black metal.

One band that hasn't been mentioned is Chatiment, they have one demo of lo-fi, medieval stylized black metal with subtle keyboard presence. Tape is sold out unfortunately...

I think this bears repeating. The TC brought up 90's Norway, and while that scene that produced many landmark albums, it has done very little since. Mayhem are a shell of their former selves, Emperor are basically inactive (yeah, they're reunited to play live, but it doesn't look like it'll result in new material), Darkthrone and Enslaved have completely shifted gears musically, and Varg just made a huge deal about abandoning black metal - again. Immortal are still kicking, but haven't done anything since 2009 and even they aren't the same band they used to be.

It's more useful to compare the Quebec scene to other modern black metal scenes, and in that context, Quebec is about as strong as you can ask for.

I'm not really into black metal except for a few bands here and there, so I'm not one to really assess the quality of my local scene, and I might be perceived as biased doing so.

I'll just say that I personally enjoy some of the Quebec black metal scene and the latest Gris is especially growing on me. Not too raw, not too polished and a nice balance between atmospheric moments and sonic fury.

I think that, like many scenes, people hold very monolithic views. Norwegian black, Gothenburg death, Italian power, etc…

Yeah, there's a big scene here but there's no guarantee if you like one you'll like 'em all and discarding the whole scene because some of the names lack originality or something is misguided.

Anyways, I don't know how original they are compared to what is going on worldwide in black metal. But the scene to me is important and interesting because compared to other metal scenes in Quebec, our black metal scene tends to think outside the box and be less consumed by the americanization that goes through in metal around here usually. It's the most refreshing and important scene in Quebec in a very, very long time, IMO. Much more interesting than the 90s death metal thing we had going and anything since. This is important, because it gives hope this will reflect in other scenes locally.

I think Quebec has been releasing some stellar material and what I like about it is that it can be quite varied, but still adds its own flare to the cold Scandinavian sound. Listen to Sorcier des Glaces and it is nothing like Chatiment, but they both bring that cold, isolated sound. Then you take Gris or Déliquescence or Deletere and you have yet more difference in approach, yet still has a common current I feel.

That said, I LOVED the Chatiment tape and also the Deletere "Inopia et Morbo" tape.