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tomcat_ha
Veteran

Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 8:05 am
Posts: 2715
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Sun Dec 29, 2013 1:58 pm 
 

blackcore exists kinda, but you end up with bands sounding like The Secret luckily instead.

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Grave_Wyrm
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2012 5:55 pm
Posts: 2114
Location: At the bottom of the lake
PostPosted: Sun Dec 29, 2013 7:43 pm 
 

I like the adjustment the thread name has gotten.

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elf48687789
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2009 2:03 pm
Posts: 1632
PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 3:17 pm 
 

AcidWorm wrote:
LordEuronymous wrote:
Troll/Forest Metal, yes it's a real genre:

[youtube]Video[/youtube]

One thing I've been questioning myself is regarding whether blackcore exists or not. I reckon in time a bunch of whiny emos will come together to create the genre, let's hope not.


I can't listen at the moment but if that is the Norwegian Troll I recall them being black metal but that was years ago that I last heard them. We already have pagan, viking, folk, ambient, and black metal so no need for forest or troll metal. If you find a band you want to label that it is most likely one or a combination of the genres I listed.

That is indeed one of the two Norwegian bands called Troll, but this is the lesser know one that only put out one demo, great demo, captures the feel pretty well, but why would someone call this a genre?

What about death 'n roll? I watched this video:

some of the stuff sounds like straight doom/sludge, some like death/doom. I don't know, maybe some of it like White Zombie or a tiny bit like Motörhead. If anybody is consciously trying to sound like Carcass's Swansong, no doubt they sound better.

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ShaolinLambKiller
King Asshole

Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2007 6:10 pm
Posts: 11988
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 12:49 am 
 

Death n Roll really refers more to later Entombed Like Wolverine Blues and on.... kinda exactly what the video is showing... so it's right.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUFcJ5Ahew0

Also a new contemporary:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWP3asMyaZY


So yea it's a thing, I thought pretty common to the point it's not really second guessed.
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ld50
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2011 2:22 am
Posts: 499
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 5:29 am 
 

Snowgrave wrote:
The Infamous Bastard wrote:
Is there anything as post-death metal, as post-black metal or post-thrash metal?

tomcat_ha wrote:
I'd Say Island and Valborg are post-death.

It depends on who you ask, really. In my opinion, that atmospheric, technical and chaotic sound best exemplified by Ulcerate could qualify as "post-death metal". In any case, it's not (yet) an established moniker as far as I'm aware.

I feel like a band like Ulcerate could almost be called post-death. The material has somewhat sludgy guitars (not really the same as many sludge bands, however) mixed with longer, progressive songs. Atmosphere is clearly a large part of their songs and also contain somewhat "post" sounding leads.

However, atmosphere is inherent to many death metal bands and most of those bands are simply called death metal. Also, a lot of the leads in Ulcerate's songs can and generally are referred to as technical. So, despite the fairly distinct sound, I feel that technical death metal is an accurate description. Though, I can understand the inclination of some to want to place Ulcerate under a slightly different umbrella and I don't mind if anyone uses the term post-death, even if it may be somewhat redundant.

One could also mention some of Gorguts' material, of course.

Valborg, that's interesting; that has altered my view of what combination of styles post-death could potentially be.


Last edited by ld50 on Tue Jan 07, 2014 5:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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ld50
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2011 2:22 am
Posts: 499
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 5:41 am 
 

Ohrwurm wrote:
Morsay wrote:
Black grind ? Is it real ?

There is deathgrind so why not.

I've heard a few people mention it when talking about bands like Circle of dead Children and Phantom.

Examples :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1T5KIPDwrr8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGUzA4cewOU

are these deathgrind ? grindcore ? black metal ?


Phantom:

What the... I would have a hard time even calling that music at all. And I guess the moderators agree, since the band has an album out and isn't in the Archives. I hope I won't ever have to let my ears go through that again.

Circle of Dead Children:

This is deathgrind with some black metal influences.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2bb_EGjcAI

I guess this would just be black metal, done by a deathgrind band and not really blackgrind. (talking about the first half of the song ofcourse)
And even if it would be, half a song wouldn't really make something a genre.

When I think of a mix of grind and death, I think of Knelt Rote.

Though, I don't really like the term black grind, for whatever reason. Perhaps, because it sounds like just because these two styles/sounds have been mixed together, that it deserves a new name, like some kind of movement or fad, which I don't think it does; "black/grind," "black metal/grindcore," etc is enough.

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Yayattasa
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2012 7:49 am
Posts: 571
Location: Brazil
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 3:37 pm 
 

Okay, I know some of you know Ovid's Withering. They have some tracks for free on youtube, but I don't want to bias your answers by picking some of the tracks I do actually know.
The question is simply: what's their genre?
I've seen they being called progressive black metal, djent/symphonic black metal, etc. and felt it was completely wrong.
So what you think? A short answer is acceptable.
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Damn, I thought this thread was headed for closure. Good save, whoever saved it but I'm too lazy to scroll up right now.

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ld50
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2011 2:22 am
Posts: 499
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 7:31 am 
 

Based on Scryers of the Ibis, I'd say symphonic deathcore/groove/djent with some black and technical elements here and there. Groove and djent are somewhat redundant and black and technical aren't really prevalent enough, so I think Symphonic Deathcore would suffice as a description.

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Ohrwurm
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Apr 15, 2013 1:47 am
Posts: 416
Location: Amsterdam, The Netherlands
PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 4:23 pm 
 

Haha, great to see how one person can call something progressive black metal, while another can call it symphonic deathcore. I'd expect the two to be as far apart as possible.
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Yayattasa
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2012 7:49 am
Posts: 571
Location: Brazil
PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 9:41 am 
 

ld50 wrote:
Based on Scryers of the Ibis, I'd say symphonic deathcore/groove/djent with some black and technical elements here and there. Groove and djent are somewhat redundant and black and technical aren't really prevalent enough, so I think Symphonic Deathcore would suffice as a description.


Thanks for the input, that's exactly what I always labelled them in my mind. Good to know I still know what's black metal and what's deathcore.
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inhumanist wrote:
Arkhane wrote:
Damn, I thought this thread was headed for closure. Good save, whoever saved it but I'm too lazy to scroll up right now.

oh my god people disagreed on something for several pages stop the presses

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ancientorder
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2012 7:38 am
Posts: 252
PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 2:27 am 
 

infinitenexus wrote:
Can someone describe "post-metal" for me and maybe give an example?


Promethean from Finland is said by themselves to be post-metal (or was it "post-black metal"). At least in interviews of Timo Iivari (Forn) after Black Crucifixion comeback.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkGTNSQqNhg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qaDXcpHr8vc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iq5IbRIO8gw

There is nothing metal in this. "Post-metal" is just another term for "not metal".

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ld50
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2011 2:22 am
Posts: 499
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 5:15 am 
 

Just because a band says that they play a certain style doesn't mean that they are necessarily correct. Promethean is not post-metal and to say that "Post-metal" is just another term for "not metal" is incorrect.

The question has been addressed earlier in the thread. More opinions can be added, but not with misinformation.

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Eh_Timeghoul
Be gentle, I was... Born This Way

Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2011 4:35 pm
Posts: 317
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 7:55 am 
 

ld50 wrote:
Snowgrave wrote:
It depends on who you ask, really. In my opinion, that atmospheric, technical and chaotic sound best exemplified by Ulcerate could qualify as "post-death metal". In any case, it's not (yet) an established moniker as far as I'm aware.

I feel like a band like Ulcerate could almost be called post-death. The material has somewhat sludgy guitars (not really the same as many sludge bands, however) mixed with longer, progressive songs. Atmosphere is clearly a large part of their songs and also contain somewhat "post" sounding leads.

However, atmosphere is inherent to many death metal bands and most of those bands are simply called death metal. Also, a lot of the leads in Ulcerate's songs can and generally are referred to as technical. So, despite the fairly distinct sound, I feel that technical death metal is an accurate description. Though, I can understand the inclination of some to want to place Ulcerate under a slightly different umbrella and I don't mind if anyone uses the term post-death, even if it may be somewhat redundant.

One could also mention some of Gorguts' material, of course.

Valborg, that's interesting; that has altered my view of what combination of styles post-death could potentially be.


they're retarded? and/or seeking attention?? only reason i can see for making up a useless term that doesn't describe ANY of those bands (on top of the fact it's a dumb description to begin with that literally ignores what the word actually means and is just one of those things Metal should've left to the Punks).......yeah

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SoulsInferno
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2010 5:35 pm
Posts: 211
Location: Florida
PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 1:22 am 
 

Yayattasa wrote:
Okay, I know some of you know Ovid's Withering. They have some tracks for free on youtube, but I don't want to bias your answers by picking some of the tracks I do actually know.
The question is simply: what's their genre?
I've seen they being called progressive black metal, djent/symphonic black metal, etc. and felt it was completely wrong.
So what you think? A short answer is acceptable.


I never got to ask Shiv his take on this. Oh well. Regardless, I simply label them as progressive metal. The other terms like black and djent are useless because they describe only elements of their music, not the overall structure of their sound.
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OpsiusCato
Mexican Metal Inquisition

Joined: Thu Oct 05, 2006 4:42 am
Posts: 1342
Location: Mexico
PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 3:28 pm 
 

On the subject of blackgaze: the proper name should be "shoe metal".
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Ilwhyan
Metel fraek

Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 1:41 pm
Posts: 6484
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 5:49 am 
 

OpsiusCato wrote:
On the subject of blackgaze: the proper name should be "shoe".

Fixed.
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OneSizeFitzpatrick
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2011 4:56 pm
Posts: 777
Location: A smoldering ruin with wi-fi, Chechnya
PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 2:22 pm 
 

what about norsecore? or "swedecore"... Is there such a thing as "finncore"? I've heard norsecore used to describe some straight-up black metal acts like 1349 before in reviews on here, is it just like a label for black metal bands that have a typical sound from certain Scandinavian countries?
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Ilwhyan
Metel fraek

Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 1:41 pm
Posts: 6484
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 2:54 pm 
 

Norsecore is black metal that's noisy and full of tremolo-picked riffs and blastbeats. I think Marduk's Panzer Division Marduk is an exempliary norsecore album. I suppose Dark Funeral and 1349 are the bands that most commonly get that label.

It's not a real genre though, it's more a pejorative term used to (usually jokingly) label something that's perceived as cookie-cutter aggressive black metal. Most of the stuff comes from Norway and Sweden. Finnish bands rarely sound like that.
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lord_ghengis
Metal freak

Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2006 8:31 pm
Posts: 5383
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 5:44 pm 
 

Yeah it was originally a purely negative dig at the simple minded bands that Ilywhan mentioned played, but over the years it has become somewhat acceptable as a helpful little term to help someone to specify a specific sound in the BM genre though. Still not a "genre" as such, just a grouping for one particular extreme within the black metal genre.

Also since it was originally used as an insult explains why the name doesn't really describe the sound at all, although I.do think it rolls off the tongue nicely.
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Zodijackyl
Lazy Wizard

Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 5:39 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 7:50 pm 
 

OneSizeFitzpatrick wrote:
what about norsecore? or "swedecore"... Is there such a thing as "finncore"? I've heard norsecore used to describe some straight-up black metal acts like 1349 before in reviews on here, is it just like a label for black metal bands that have a typical sound from certain Scandinavian countries?


None of those have much meaning at all and norsecore seems to be as misused and misunderstood nearly as often as it is used in the common fashion that Ilwhyan described, as a pejorative. hells_unicorn once referred to The Black Dahlia Murder as norsecore.

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Manic Maniac
Grammaritically Challengated

Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2013 1:58 pm
Posts: 182
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 8:20 pm 
 

I always thought Noisecore was a mixture of Noise Rock & Hardcore Punk, like some sort of Proto-Post-Hardcore. Never have I heard the term Noisecore be used for anything Metal, let alone Black Metal.
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iamntbatman
Chaos Breed

Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 5:55 am
Posts: 7685
Location: Innsmouth
PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 10:09 pm 
 

What about readingcomprehensioncore?
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Zodijackyl
Lazy Wizard

Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 5:39 pm
Posts: 4911
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Feb 01, 2014 2:00 pm 
 

iamntbatman wrote:
What about readingcomprehensioncore?


Hmm, probably sounds like Hevisaurus with breakdowns and spelling lessons.

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OneSizeFitzpatrick
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2011 4:56 pm
Posts: 777
Location: A smoldering ruin with wi-fi, Chechnya
PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 5:46 pm 
 

Ilwhyan wrote:
Norsecore is black metal that's noisy and full of tremolo-picked riffs and blastbeats. I think Marduk's Panzer Division Marduk is an exempliary norsecore album. I suppose Dark Funeral and 1349 are the bands that most commonly get that label.

It's not a real genre though, it's more a pejorative term used to (usually jokingly) label something that's perceived as cookie-cutter aggressive black metal. Most of the stuff comes from Norway and Sweden. Finnish bands rarely sound like that.

Pejorative was the exact word I was thinking of, I wanted to say "demonize" but it sounded kinda pun-y in the context of black metal bands.
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tomcat_ha
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Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 8:05 am
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 7:03 pm 
 

norsecore is blasting black metal with an almost grindcore riffing style. Dark Funeral and Panzer Division Marduk being prime examples basically.

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ShaolinLambKiller
King Asshole

Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2007 6:10 pm
Posts: 11988
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 8:07 am 
 

Also Unlord
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schizoid
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2004 8:35 am
Posts: 560
Location: New Zealand
PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 2:55 am 
 

was just browsing Meshuggah's page and saw that Djent (not to mention Technical Nu-Metal WTF?) is now listed as a legitimate genre name. Sort it out guys.

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Ilwhyan
Metel fraek

Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 1:41 pm
Posts: 6484
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 5:24 am 
 

schizoid wrote:
was just browsing Meshuggah's page and saw that Djent (not to mention Technical Nu-Metal WTF?) is now listed as a legitimate genre name. Sort it out guys.

Okay. What's the real genre label of djent? As for technical nu metal:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zg2076b5Lqc

Yeah, it's not actually that technical sounding even. Nu metal might even suffice.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IetaaBPtS6I
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Ritual_Suicide
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2008 11:39 am
Posts: 379
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 2:43 pm 
 

I was gonna make a comment about how stupid I thought it was to call Meshuggah nu-metal until I listened to the track Ilwhyan posted. :ugh:

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Grindcoremaniac135
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Aug 12, 2013 2:34 pm
Posts: 72
PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 3:15 pm 
 

Is coprogrind a real genre? There are bands like abosranie bogom, monigo and brownfilled human race, and if norsecore is a real genre, this would also be a real genre, or?

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Zodijackyl
Lazy Wizard

Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 5:39 pm
Posts: 4911
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 4:37 pm 
 

Grindcoremaniac135 wrote:
Is coprogrind a real genre? There are bands like abosranie bogom, monigo and brownfilled human race, and if norsecore is a real genre, this would also be a real genre, or?


There are weird terms for all of these grind niches that will never catch on because they describe some abstract, retarded niche of feedback and bowel movements with blast beats that has been listened to by fourteen people and only six of them have heard the term, so by the time a dozen of those listeners use the term the new fad will be scat-grind, which is a combination of scat jazz and pooping noises over blast beats.

Grindcore about poop is not a new genre. Lyrical/thematic style names don't come into common use because they aren't a new type of music.

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Grindcoremaniac135
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Aug 12, 2013 2:34 pm
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 5:01 pm 
 

Ok, now i'm just asking, but what makes some "lyrical" genres to a real genre, and some not?

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MorbidEngel
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2012 9:37 pm
Posts: 426
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 5:08 pm 
 

There aren't any genres based entirely on lyrical themes. Goregrind isn't necessarily about gore or porn. For example, Vomitorial Corpulance is Christian goregrind.
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Smalley
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2009 9:06 am
Posts: 699
PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 5:15 pm 
 

schizoid wrote:
was just browsing Meshuggah's page and saw that Djent (not to mention Technical Nu-Metal WTF?) is now listed as a legitimate genre name. Sort it out guys.


Don't forget:

Quote:
The band was accepted based solely on their early material


Image Wtf?

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Grindcoremaniac135
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Aug 12, 2013 2:34 pm
Posts: 72
PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 5:17 pm 
 

Morbidengel,Yes, i know, but then they got labeled Christian goregrind cause they got Christian lyrics?

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Ohrwurm
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Apr 15, 2013 1:47 am
Posts: 416
Location: Amsterdam, The Netherlands
PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 7:09 pm 
 

Grindcoremaniac135 wrote:
Morbidengel,Yes, i know, but then they got labeled Christian goregrind cause they got Christian lyrics?


'Christian' isn't a genre tag.
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Fromage_Qui_Pue
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Feb 05, 2014 7:32 pm
Posts: 73
Location: France
PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2014 5:57 am 
 

Grindcoremaniac135 wrote:
Ok, now i'm just asking, but what makes some "lyrical" genres to a real genre, and some not?



All the "write the lyrics theme here" Metal genre tag aren't real genres.
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Ilwhyan
Metel fraek

Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 1:41 pm
Posts: 6484
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2014 9:40 am 
 

Grindcoremaniac135 wrote:
Ok, now i'm just asking, but what makes some "lyrical" genres to a real genre, and some not?

When it comes to genres like viking metal, they are separate musical genres that are simply named after a common subject matter. If shit-grind had something that would obviously separate it from other kinds of grind musically, it might be its own subgenre of grind, and calling it that would be quite logical in that case.

Of course, it would have to be reasonably different from existing subgenres. Some samples would hardly be enough.
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Zodijackyl
Lazy Wizard

Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 5:39 pm
Posts: 4911
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2014 3:17 pm 
 

It seems like the reason many bands label themselves with thematic/lyrical elements is to differentiate themselves in a "unique" way, yet this is for the opposite reason that we use musical genres in the first place - as a broad and concise label of a style of music.

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Exigence
Age: 28 (Wait, what?!)

Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2005 2:42 pm
Posts: 860
Location: New Orleans
PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 8:21 pm 
 

I absolutely need the lyrical themes because that's how I do my searches. They are far more important to me than music. I mean, this is metal-archives, I am assuming the shit listed here is already 'metal'. Great. Now I just need specific lyrics about things I'm interested in. If I query "japanese war history" and find a thrash band. I'll check it out. If I get a tech death band. I'll check it out. If I get a stoner death grind band. I'll check out. All because I want to hear songs about that subject.

The more specific the topic, the more interested I am. Then if bands go so far as to make it their whole gimmick, like Ex Deo, that's even better. Musically everything is so interchangeable these days, the set themes of lyrics or imagery is absolutely necessary. If Hail of Bullets didn't have their WWII storytelling, I wouldn't be interested.

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