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imcominforyou
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2012 11:31 pm
Posts: 6
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 9:12 pm 
 

androdion wrote:
Can't be that hard to understand, and the "everybody else says otherwise" argument really makes you sound like you're not thinking for yourself here. Which you should. ;)


I'd be inclined to agree if it wasn't for the fact that I can't find "melodic groove metal" mentioned anywhere else online. That's an anomaly that shouldn't occur. For me, groove metal is intrinsically melodic, and for that reason it seems redundant to include "melodic" in its subgenre, much like how "melodic power metal" is redundant.

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androdion
Metal freak

Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:34 am
Posts: 5150
Location: Portugal
PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 12:10 pm 
 

OK, that's a whole different aspect, so I'm not going to meddle. Maybe contact one of the Mods to get a better response? PM Diamhea for instance.
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PDS
The Young One

Joined: Thu Jul 16, 2009 8:04 pm
Posts: 625
PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 11:15 pm 
 

androdion wrote:
OK, that's a whole different aspect, so I'm not going to meddle. Maybe contact one of the Mods to get a better response? PM Diamhea for instance.


Don't encourage him....please
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DarknessCrave wrote:
Since Danzig, Doyle, Jerry and Dr. Chud have their metal bands added in this page, is there any possibility on add Misfits as side project?

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androdion
Metal freak

Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:34 am
Posts: 5150
Location: Portugal
PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 8:28 am 
 

PDS wrote:
androdion wrote:
OK, that's a whole different aspect, so I'm not going to meddle. Maybe contact one of the Mods to get a better response? PM Diamhea for instance.


Don't encourage him....please

:lol:
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Liam Oliver
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2014 5:10 am
Posts: 19
PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 6:47 am 
 

Just curious on how this website defines 'Epic Metal'?

I have always thought Epic Metal to refer to powerful fantasy/mythology themed Metal usually along the lines of oldschool Heavy/Power Metal bands such as Manowar, Virgin Steele and Manilla Road, whos songs and albums are almost like legends or fables. Pretty much the same way these websites class it:

http://rateyourmusic.com/list/antreas72 ... est_bands/
http://www.last.fm/tag/epic%20metal

I have noticed bands on Metallum tagged Epic Metal that fit with this common definition, and some tagged Epic Metal that do not. There are also many bands that fit with this definition but are not tagged Epic Metal. Is 'Epic' subjective?

I am not saying this website is wrong, i myself do not know the exact definition of Epic Metal, as there is little information out there on it, i am just curious to see how this website defines it.

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teh_Foxx0rz
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue May 20, 2014 9:38 am
Posts: 371
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 10:18 am 
 

I understand "epic metal" to be power metal (of either variety, US or Euro, though usually USPM-based) with more emphasis on atmosphere and "scale", and less speed. At the very least, that's how bands I've seen described as that sound to me.

I've also seen it described as the mix of power and doom, but I'm not so sure about that. Maybe Candlemass-style doom, but not Pentagram/Sabbath-style doom, and Candlemass are described as "epic" doom metal already.

I tend to just class them as either power or trad. metal in my collection, though.

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Liam Oliver
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2014 5:10 am
Posts: 19
PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 3:54 pm 
 

Yes i agree. I have always thought Epic to be related to Power Metal, especially USPM but i have also seen many Doom Metal bands labelled "Epic" as well.

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PDS
The Young One

Joined: Thu Jul 16, 2009 8:04 pm
Posts: 625
PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 5:49 pm 
 

I've been working on the use of the "Epic" genre prefix. We even have bands just called "Epic Metal" which isn't a real genre. Usually it is just power/heavy metal. One band labeled "Epic metal" would have been nuked if it was just alittle more hard rock.

Needless to say, I'm working on it. I'm jist catching up on the Epic Doom Metal bands to refresh my memory, as the use of epic depends on the sub genres, concerning the extra bits in the music.
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Since Danzig, Doyle, Jerry and Dr. Chud have their metal bands added in this page, is there any possibility on add Misfits as side project?

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teh_Foxx0rz
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue May 20, 2014 9:38 am
Posts: 371
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 7:14 pm 
 

Liam Oliver wrote:
but i have also seen many Doom Metal bands labelled "Epic" as well.

Yeah, that's a well accepted and attested thing, like, as I mentioned, Candlemass, though it seems to be separate from the "epic metal" label people sometimes use, as in, "epic metal" usually doesn't get applied to epic doom bands, from what (little) I've seen.

PDS wrote:
One band labeled "Epic metal" would have been nuked if it was just alittle more hard rock.

That reminds me of that "Legend" band from the US who released "From the Fjords", who pretty much fit that description (though they are at least labelled "Epic Heavy Metal"), and sounded more like "prog rock/heavy metal" or something, at least to me.

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PDS
The Young One

Joined: Thu Jul 16, 2009 8:04 pm
Posts: 625
PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 7:18 pm 
 

teh_Foxx0rz wrote:
PDS wrote:
One band labeled "Epic metal" would have been nuked if it was just alittle more hard rock.

That reminds me of that "Legend" band from the US who released "From the Fjords", who pretty much fit that description (though they are at least labelled "Epic Heavy Metal"), and sounded more like "prog rock/heavy metal" or something, at least to me.



I"ll check that one out as I go through the "Epic" labeled band. The band that almost got nuked was Revenge from Italy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMU8V4hVrSs
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DarknessCrave wrote:
Since Danzig, Doyle, Jerry and Dr. Chud have their metal bands added in this page, is there any possibility on add Misfits as side project?

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teh_Foxx0rz
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue May 20, 2014 9:38 am
Posts: 371
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 7:53 pm 
 

PDS wrote:
The band that almost got nuked was Revenge from Italy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMU8V4hVrSs

That sounds pretty decent for what it is, though no idea where they got the "epic" from :P

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PDS
The Young One

Joined: Thu Jul 16, 2009 8:04 pm
Posts: 625
PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 8:45 pm 
 

teh_Foxx0rz wrote:
PDS wrote:
The band that almost got nuked was Revenge from Italy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMU8V4hVrSs

That sounds pretty decent for what it is, though no idea where they got the "epic" from :P


I have no idea either. We have a couple bands labeled "epic metal" but I can't listen to them because the demos are impossible to find. All of them are italian though. I think I'm seeing a pattern.
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DarknessCrave wrote:
Since Danzig, Doyle, Jerry and Dr. Chud have their metal bands added in this page, is there any possibility on add Misfits as side project?

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Liam Oliver
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2014 5:10 am
Posts: 19
PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 1:00 am 
 

Manilla Road, Equilibrium, Theocracy, Folkearth and Valkyrie are some of the bigger bands labelled Epic Metal, none of them are Italian. But i have also noticed many Italian bands labelled Epic Metal.

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PDS
The Young One

Joined: Thu Jul 16, 2009 8:04 pm
Posts: 625
PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 1:42 am 
 

That is where you read wrong, Bucko. I said "Epic Metal" not "Epic Blah-de-blah metal."

Read.
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DarknessCrave wrote:
Since Danzig, Doyle, Jerry and Dr. Chud have their metal bands added in this page, is there any possibility on add Misfits as side project?

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Liam Oliver
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2014 5:10 am
Posts: 19
PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 1:59 am 
 

Wow dude chill out. no need for that. We are talking about the 'Epic' tag in general. Whether it is 'Epic Metal' or "Epic Folk Metal' or 'Epic Progressive Post-Sludge Djentcore' makes not difference. I am trying to determine how 'Epic' is defined here.

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PDS
The Young One

Joined: Thu Jul 16, 2009 8:04 pm
Posts: 625
PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 2:10 am 
 

Yes true. But you mentioned "Epic metal" from italy. I was the only one that mentioned Italy. And only with the term "Epic Metal". I'll put it down under a lack of properly reading conversations or the flow of words. But I'll throw that under the carpet.

The "Epic" definition is in the works. Expect some changes in a couple weeks. Maybe.
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DarknessCrave wrote:
Since Danzig, Doyle, Jerry and Dr. Chud have their metal bands added in this page, is there any possibility on add Misfits as side project?

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Liam Oliver
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2014 5:10 am
Posts: 19
PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 2:26 am 
 

Every band on here is a Metal band, therefore every band tagged "Epic" is an Epic Metal band, and i am talking about the Epic tag in general, it makes no difference what other genres follow. And you do not need to be so hostile over a minor misunderstanding.

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PDS
The Young One

Joined: Thu Jul 16, 2009 8:04 pm
Posts: 625
PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 2:46 am 
 

Yes true, but we still have bands under just under "Epic Metal", which was what the conversation led to. Also we have bands that aren't metal on here. Side-project rule. I admit I'm a little too tetchy at the moment, though you did sort of miss-read the convo between me and teh_Foxx0rs. Let's leave the conversation at that. I the end. All that can be said on the Epic prefix is "I'm working on it", since the elements used for concerning epic in different sub genres are different when you check out the commonalities of the bands of each subgenre
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Since Danzig, Doyle, Jerry and Dr. Chud have their metal bands added in this page, is there any possibility on add Misfits as side project?

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Zodijackyl
Lazy Wizard

Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 5:39 pm
Posts: 5018
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 3:04 pm 
 

teh_Foxx0rz"
[quote="PDS wrote:
One band labeled "Epic metal" would have been nuked if it was just alittle more hard rock.

That reminds me of that "Legend" band from the US who released "From the Fjords", who pretty much fit that description (though they are at least labelled "Epic Heavy Metal"), and sounded more like "prog rock/heavy metal" or something, at least to me.[/quote]
Yeah, Legend is epic heavy metal/progressive rock, could be listed with the extra genre or it could be left off. I recall that it was discussed but forget the details. One of my favorite bands there.

Epic heavy metal tends to have a strong prog rock influence anyway, in the structuring and elements used to create epic dynamics. Consider Manilla Road's Mark of the Beast as an example/stylistic predecessor to their epic style. Of course, they had done epics before that, but it's a good example of an album bridging some influences.

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Abethedemon
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri May 30, 2014 12:56 pm
Posts: 96
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 7:52 pm 
 

Are there any Power/doom bands? what about blackened power metal aside from demoniac? Symphonic thrash metal aside from al'virius? Epic Thrash Metal? Have there been any screamo (real screamo, like Orchid or Rorschach) influenced metal sub genres?

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Naze
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2013 1:18 am
Posts: 2
PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 8:25 pm 
 

Abethedemon wrote:
Are there any Power/doom bands? what about blackened power metal aside from demoniac? Symphonic thrash metal aside from al'virius? Epic Thrash Metal?


Yeah that's something I'm really curious to see haha! And I'm sure someone is going to do it, it is just a matter of time... You know how things are nowadays.

Abethedemon wrote:
Have there been any screamo (real screamo, like Orchid or Rorschach) influenced metal sub genres?


I don't know if it directly influenced a whole metal subgenre, but it definitely influenced a lot of bands. There is also that whole metalcore thing, that is everyday blending even more with regular metal, but I'm really sure people won't allow them to be called as an actual "heavy metal subgenre".

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Metantoine
The XVI, dominar to over 258714 subjects

Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2008 5:00 pm
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Location: Québec
PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 8:42 pm 
 

Epic doom metal is sort of trad doom + power metal sensibilities. You can listen to bands like Candlemass, Solstice, While Heaven Wept or Atlantean Kodex and hear the mix of genres. There is legit power/doom though, keep in mind that doom doesn't equal slow though, there's plenty of fast paced trad doom like Pentagram or Iron Man.
Power doom:





Black power is pretty rare, melodic black metal can be seen as being near that definition though as it's often including trad metal influences.
Stormlord from Italy is blending symphonic power with melodic/symphonic black. Kind of decent.
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DCCLXXVII
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Aug 16, 2014 10:04 pm
Posts: 212
PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 8:44 pm 
 

I'm still fairly new to metal (only been listening for about two years, much less time than most people on this site), and I keep hearing about "Slam Death Metal". If this is a real thing, can someone give me an example? I want to know what it sounds like.
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Abethedemon
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri May 30, 2014 12:56 pm
Posts: 96
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 9:28 pm 
 

Metantoine wrote:
Epic doom metal is sort of trad doom + power metal sensibilities. You can listen to bands like Candlemass, Solstice, While Heaven Wept or Atlantean Kodex and hear the mix of genres. There is legit power/doom though, keep in mind that doom doesn't equal slow though, there's plenty of fast paced trad doom like Pentagram or Iron Man.
Power doom:





Black power is pretty rare, melodic black metal can be seen as being near that definition though as it's often including trad metal influences.
Stormlord from Italy is blending symphonic power with melodic/symphonic black. Kind of decent.

Thanks! I'm actually a big fan of Candlemass, and when I first heard Epicus, I remarked at the falsettos, which seemed kind of power metal-y. I really liked the first link, doom with a power-y feel (or is that the other way around?)
I didn't like Stormlord, it had good riffs, but felt more symphonic black metal than anything. Any melodic black metal bands you can recommend me?

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Metantoine
The XVI, dominar to over 258714 subjects

Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2008 5:00 pm
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Location: Québec
PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 9:37 pm 
 

Check the Swedish scene (Dawn, Dissection, Sacramentum, Vinterland, Unanimated.)
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Abethedemon
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri May 30, 2014 12:56 pm
Posts: 96
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 10:00 pm 
 

I listened to Sacramentum. Pretty cool, reminded me a tad o' power metal, while still being black metal in flavor.

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Auch
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2013 10:40 pm
Posts: 93
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 12:07 am 
 

DCCLXXVII wrote:
I'm still fairly new to metal (only been listening for about two years, much less time than most people on this site), and I keep hearing about "Slam Death Metal". If this is a real thing, can someone give me an example? I want to know what it sounds like.


Devourment is widely regarded as the originators of the genre.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_DgUwOMuYU

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Naze
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2013 1:18 am
Posts: 2
PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 10:40 pm 
 

Abethedemon wrote:
Any melodic black metal bands you can recommend me?


The Swedish scene that was recommended is of great quality, but there are also the infamous Dimmu Burguer and Cradle of Filth (that is sometimes not even regarded as black metal at all). Their sound is very accessible, thus ending up being melodic... But I bet you already know about them.

The post-black metal guys blend some post-rock (sometimes shoegaze) with black metal, sounds interesting in the end. There is Lantlôs, Morose, Líam, early Alcest, Austere, Heretoir, etc. Not very agressive though, it sounds more emotive, sometimes even resembling DSBM.

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AnalogKid
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2007 12:31 am
Posts: 122
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 8:12 pm 
 

androdion wrote:
There's plenty of explanation of it in the appropriate threads down there in the "Suggestions and Complaints" section. Some Mods even provided explanations.

Basically it has to do with those band's music being based on groove rather than death metal, and being that they're fundamentally melody-driven, like anything categorized as "melodic whatever", they're classified like that. Think of it like this, if there are no death metal riffs but instead a bunch of groove-ridden chords/riffs being played then why would you call that death metal in the first place. For a band to be classified as melodic death metal it implies that they at first play actual death metal, and then the basis of the way they play it is... melody.


There's NOT very good explanation. I provided a very thorough argument against its label of groove metal on a couple of occasions (as a fairly informed student of musicology in modern popular music), and have been completely ignored every time. Even when requesting a response. I have heard the claim multiple times that a couple of the admins dislike Scar Symmetry and have retained the "groove" label as a detractor on the band's page - something I'm finding continuously easier to believe, as they've never refuted my explanations. The classification on this site has never been terrifically accurate, and is dipping lower than ever the last couple of years. :(
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OneSizeFitzpatrick
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2011 4:56 pm
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Location: Shrekoslovak Republic
PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2014 3:44 am 
 

I mentioned this a while back somewhere else, but what exactly constitutes "epic" black metal? Apparently Moonblood is considered "epic" but no mention of Bathory? If anything, Blood Fire Death or selective Graveland or MoonSorrow albums would be the stablemate for the sound. Seems like another term for that blanket "Viking/Folk" term that gets thrown around way more often.
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Azmodes
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Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 10:44 am
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Location: Gradec, Austria
PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2014 6:50 am 
 

AnalogKid wrote:
I have heard the claim multiple times that a couple of the admins dislike Scar Symmetry and have retained the "groove" label as a detractor on the band's page - something I'm finding continuously easier to believe, as they've never refuted my explanations.

You're an idiot if you believe that, that's pure ass-pull. I dig "Holographic Universe", others dislike the band, but most staffers don't care for them one way or another. We don't use genres labels to discredit bands in any event. (it is absolutely amazing that this fact, along with refuting the tired "you don't accept bands you don't like" argument, needs spelling out so often...) I guess the "mallcore" tag didn't help with that reputation, but -I'm glad to say- we've dispensed with that one in the genre field by now.

The band's current genre is sort of a compromise between a more literal adherence to the term melodic death metal, assembling genre blocks as we see fit, on one side, and observing wider contemporary usage on the other. I think it's quite adequate. androdion's post already explains this well enough.
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flaccid_sphincter
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sun Sep 01, 2013 10:09 am
Posts: 16
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 10:02 pm 
 

I've seen the term a few times in the genre field, what the hell is southern metal?

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CardsOfWar
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2014 6:33 am
Posts: 194
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 8:46 am 
 

Sorry if this is an absolute pleb question/covered a million times, but is 'southern metal' a real genre? There are 359 bands listed here as southern metal:

http://www.metal-archives.com/search?se ... band_genre
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doomster999
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Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2012 2:58 am
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 8:56 am 
 

CardsOfWar wrote:
is 'southern metal' a real genre?


I don't think it is. It's more of a style rather than a subgenre. 'Southern metal' bands are usually derivative of Pantera or some are influenced by Sabbath and NOLA sludge and typical southern rock cockiness.
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CardsOfWar
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2014 6:33 am
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 9:43 am 
 

Interesting. I always thought it was a specific term for edgier versions of commercial redneck rock bands like Nickelback. It seems to be a very ill-defined term, and I think that a lot of the cases on this website could be a lot less ambiguously l listed as Southern Rock/Heavy Metal/Sludge Metal for example. If it's more groove influenced then obviously put that. Should I get editing?
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Abethedemon
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri May 30, 2014 12:56 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 7:20 pm 
 

Doomgrind? Epic death metal? Blackened Deathcore? Folky thrash? Grindgaze?

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DCCLXXVII
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Aug 16, 2014 10:04 pm
Posts: 212
PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 7:36 pm 
 

What exactly is "dark metal"? I've seen a few bands entered in on the site under that genre and I have no clue what that could sound like. I'd assume that it would just be like heavier Evanescense, as they referred to their sound as "dark rock".
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Yayattasa
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2012 7:49 am
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Location: Brazil
PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 10:18 pm 
 

Eh, dark metal to me is black/doom in the veins of Bethlehem 'Dark Metal', but some people say dark metal is Agalloch...
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DCCLXXVII
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Aug 16, 2014 10:04 pm
Posts: 212
PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2014 8:57 am 
 

Guess I was wrong then. :P
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doomster999
Keeper of the Dreary Realm

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2014 9:08 am 
 

Just listen to this style. You won't need anything else. :lol:

http://www.last.fm/tag/kroegressive%20cock%20rock
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