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Heavy_T_Skubbs
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 4:16 pm
Posts: 553
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 12:22 am 
 

ANationalAcrobat wrote:
Psst, thrash had already happened by '84. Ya fuckin' moran.


Testament hadn't released an album yet. The world was still good.
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Acrobat
Eric Olthwaite

Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2007 8:53 am
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 8:47 am 
 

Pantera had yet to unleash mega thrash.
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themicrulah
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Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2011 12:00 am
Posts: 1167
PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 8:56 am 
 

ANationalAcrobat wrote:
Pantera had yet to unleash mega trash.

There we go.
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severzhavnost
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Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2008 10:16 pm
Posts: 778
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 5:26 pm 
 

I think 1985 was the most important year for all of metal in general.

1) The Soviet Ministry of Arts and Heritage officially allowed heavy metal (and by extension its descendants) to exist. Black Coffee, Aria, Legion, Korrozia Metalla, Black Obelisk, Shah and Oblachniy Kray were free to record their first works! Not all of thosr made anything in '85 but it got the ball rolling, for metal to cross all of Europe.

2) Megadeth's first full-length comes out, so the American Big Four is all set. You also have Kreator joining Sodom and Destruction as leaders of the German scene with their debut album "Endless Pain".

3) The first death metal album - this will provoke some people! - comes out: "Seven Churches" by Possessed.

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vengefulgoat
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2011 9:15 am
Posts: 977
Location: Poland
PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 5:41 pm 
 

Haha, when saying that black metal year is yet to come, I wasn't really serious, of course 1994 was the best - because there is no other year in which De Mysteriis Dom Sathanas was released. Said so, I think black metal has very bright (duh) future in comparision to other metal genres/scenes, and by that I don't mean very unorthodox variations of the theme mixed with outsider influences. At this point I listen to post-2000 BM notably more frequently than to 90's stuff, and in terms of quality I would say f.e. Salvation easily crushes most of 90's classics.

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grauer_mausling
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2009 8:00 am
Posts: 1792
Location: Germany
PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 6:54 pm 
 

DaBuddha wrote:
[... 92-94 was absolutely the peak years for 2nd wave black metal. While there have been some excellent albums released since, I haven't heard a BM album in recent years that can hold a candle to things like In the Nightside Eclipse, De Mysteriis..., Under a Funeral Moon, etc, etc. Others will disagree, but this is only my opinion.


Totally agree on that. Maybe it's due to some nostalgic blur as this was the time when I discovered BM for myself in 1994 but all of my personal
"essential BM releases" are from the early to mid nineties (can't really put a year's date on it exactly) but with Satyricon's first two albums,
Abigor's debut, the already mentioned Emperor album, the first two Enslaved albums and many more, 1994 marks a perfect year for me somehow.
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severzhavnost
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Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2008 10:16 pm
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Location: Canada
PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 10:31 pm 
 

grauer_mausling wrote:
DaBuddha wrote:
[... 92-94 was absolutely the peak years for 2nd wave black metal. While there have been some excellent albums released since, I haven't heard a BM album in recent years that can hold a candle to things like In the Nightside Eclipse, De Mysteriis..., Under a Funeral Moon, etc, etc. Others will disagree, but this is only my opinion.


Totally agree on that. Maybe it's due to some nostalgic blur as this was the time when I discovered BM for myself in 1994 but all of my personal
"essential BM releases" are from the early to mid nineties (can't really put a year's date on it exactly) but with Satyricon's first two albums,
Abigor's debut, the already mentioned Emperor album, the first two Enslaved albums and many more, 1994 marks a perfect year for me somehow.


I'd add to this period's list of must-have black metal albums:
Early Greek bands' work, "Ancient Pride" by Necromantia and Rotting Christ's "Non Serviam".
The first demo of Russia's Branikald; and "Asateerul Awaleen" from Impiety. Oh, the debut "Scorn Defeat" by Sigh too! 93-94 within that Golden Age was even more important for black metal happening outside Scandinavia.

For power metal 1997 resurrected the genre. Domine, Twisted Tower Dire and Iron Savior released demos or albums. In Domine's case, they'd been sitting on "Champion Eternal" in demo form sincce the 80s! There was also comeback albums from Omen and (the real) Jag Panzer. So you have a rare chance for new leaders and old legends to work at helping rebuild a genre.

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metroplex
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Oct 30, 2006 1:28 am
Posts: 438
Location: Peru
PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 1:38 am 
 

Jackoroth wrote:

...now that I think about it, it was a pretty damn good year for thrash too with stuff like - Agent Orange, Gutter Ballet, The Years Of Decay, Face of Despair, Extreme Aggression, Thrash Zone, Alice In Hell.


what?

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soulonfire
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri May 28, 2010 1:56 pm
Posts: 160
PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 8:46 am 
 

How about power metal? I would say 1996-1999 was a decent run.
Metalcore: 2001-2004, you had a slew of bands like Shadows Fall, Killswitch Engage, Unearth, and Trivium all pop up and do fairly well.
Groove metal: 1994-1996, Pantera, Machine Head, Sepultura, and Fear Factory
Nu-Metal: 1998-2001, Deftones, Korn, Limp Bizkit, and Linkin Park
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vengefulgoat
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 10:42 am 
 

soulonfire wrote:
Metalcore: 2001-2004, you had a slew of bands like Shadows Fall, Killswitch Engage, Unearth, and Trivium all pop up and do fairly well.
Groove metal: 1994-1996, Pantera, Machine Head, Sepultura, and Fear Factory
Nu-Metal: 1998-2001, Deftones, Korn, Limp Bizkit, and Linkin Park

That kind of depends how you define peak year. For those it would be that one when none of that music was released.

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KFD
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2006 8:19 pm
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Location: France
PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 1:15 pm 
 

vengefulgoat wrote:
Salvation easily crushes most of 90's classics.


If you're talking about Funeral Mist: very bad and overrated album in my opinion.
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Ohrwurm
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Joined: Mon Apr 15, 2013 1:47 am
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Location: Amsterdam, The Netherlands
PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 4:05 am 
 

vengefulgoat wrote:
soulonfire wrote:
Metalcore: 2001-2004, you had a slew of bands like Shadows Fall, Killswitch Engage, Unearth, and Trivium all pop up and do fairly well.
Groove metal: 1994-1996, Pantera, Machine Head, Sepultura, and Fear Factory
Nu-Metal: 1998-2001, Deftones, Korn, Limp Bizkit, and Linkin Park

That kind of depends how you define peak year. For those it would be that one when none of that music was released.


You could also try being less close minded. I'm not a fan of nu-metal, but I don't care that it ever existed. It's annoying that for a long period of time when I told people that I listen to metal, they immediately asked if that means I listen to Slipknot, but that's something I can live with.
How does its existence do you any harm?

For instance, I hate black metal. Do I go around talking crap about it in threads and posts about black metal? Ofcourse not, I just ignore everything black metal and respond to everything I do like. It seems like the more mature thing to do, doesn't it?
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joppek
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Jan 09, 2011 7:36 am
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Location: Suomi Finland Perkele
PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 12:34 pm 
 

AcidWorm wrote:
It is also difficult to draw the line as to where doomy death metal turns into death/doom. Some would say Autopsy is on the doomy death metal side rather than doom/death, but this is getting too far into semantics. A lot would say that diSEMBOWELMENT pioneered death/doom and they got their album out in '93. They certainly took it further than Autopsy did into doom territory.

aren't you forgetting about asphyx? they had two albums out by '93
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Yayattasa
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2012 7:49 am
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Location: Brazil
PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 12:46 pm 
 

soulonfire wrote:
Metalcore: 2001-2004, you had a slew of bands like Shadows Fall, Killswitch Engage, Unearth, and Trivium all pop up and do fairly well.


Well, for me the peak year for metalcore is probably 1999:
Botch - We are the romans
ZAO - Liberate te ex inferis
Converge - The poacher diaries (split with Agoraphobic Nosebleed (grindcore), with I also enjoy)
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inhumanist wrote:
Arkhane wrote:
Damn, I thought this thread was headed for closure. Good save, whoever saved it but I'm too lazy to scroll up right now.

oh my god people disagreed on something for several pages stop the presses

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Hellbeast11
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2005 3:46 pm
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Location: Omega Cen
PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 12:56 pm 
 

96-97 was the peak for Symphonic Black Metal, with “Stormblast”, “Dusk and her Embrace”, “Enthrone Darkness Triumphant”, “Moon in the Scorpio”, “Witchcraft”, “Blot” and “In Times Before the Light”.
For DSBM its more difficult. I see a first peak in 94-96 for traditional DSBM (“Hvis Lyset Tar Oss”, “Filosofem”, “As the Wolves Gather”, the Abyssic Hate demos), and a second in 06-07 for Hypnotic DSBM (Hypothermia, Trist) and Atmospheric DSBM (the debuts of Austere, Gris, Wedard).

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lord_ghengis
Metal freak

Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2006 8:31 pm
Posts: 5405
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 1:51 pm 
 

joppek wrote:
AcidWorm wrote:
It is also difficult to draw the line as to where doomy death metal turns into death/doom. Some would say Autopsy is on the doomy death metal side rather than doom/death, but this is getting too far into semantics. A lot would say that diSEMBOWELMENT pioneered death/doom and they got their album out in '93. They certainly took it further than Autopsy did into doom territory.

aren't you forgetting about asphyx? they had two albums out by '93


I personally count Asphyx as slower death metal, not doom.

I'd go.with Sempiternal Deathreign as first the first death doom myself. And there was.certainly a.bunch of it pre 93.
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Smalley
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Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2009 9:06 am
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 1:22 am 
 

Hellbeast11 wrote:
96-97 was the peak for Symphonic Black Metal, with “Stormblast”, “Dusk and her Embrace”, “Enthrone Darkness Triumphant”, “Moon in the Scorpio”, “Witchcraft”, “Blot” and “In Times Before the Light”.


No Anthems To The Welkin?

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Hellbeast11
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2005 3:46 pm
Posts: 150
Location: Omega Cen
PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 7:21 am 
 

Smalley wrote:
Hellbeast11 wrote:
96-97 was the peak for Symphonic Black Metal, with “Stormblast”, “Dusk and her Embrace”, “Enthrone Darkness Triumphant”, “Moon in the Scorpio”, “Witchcraft”, “Blot” and “In Times Before the Light”.


No Anthems To The Welkin?

Dammit, I knew I've forgotten something...

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Smalley
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2009 9:06 am
Posts: 699
PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 3:47 am 
 

What is it about this thread that seems to keep making people forget legendary records? :-D

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Yayattasa
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2012 7:49 am
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Location: Brazil
PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 12:43 pm 
 

I suppose this apply to most people: when you are discovering bands and you find one you enjoy, most of the time you just don't look up the release date.
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Arkhane wrote:
Damn, I thought this thread was headed for closure. Good save, whoever saved it but I'm too lazy to scroll up right now.

oh my god people disagreed on something for several pages stop the presses

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Jophelerx
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 5:44 pm 
 

Power metal is sort of all over the place, but I'd say '84-'86 have probably been the peak years for me at this point.

Released in '84:
Omen - Battle Cry (widely regarded as one of the best USPM albums, insane guitar harmonies and super muscular vocals from J.D. Kimball)
Griffin - Flight of the Griffin (insane power/speed with a crazy vocalist)
Martyr - For the Universe (unique heavy/power/speed with incredible energy and charisma)
Stormwitch - Walpurgis Night (super catchy power/NWOBHM stuff)
Manowar - Hail to England (their best album, epic heavy/power stuff)
Jag Panzer - Ample Destruction (one of the most testosterone-laden albums ever released, Harry Conklin is ridiculously good here)

Released in '85:
Fates Warning - The Spectre Within (super complex and influential, along with AtG widely considered one of the best metal albums ever)
Omen - The Warning
Savage Grace - Master of Disguise (catchy, intense power/speed)
Attacker - Battle at Helm's Deep
Manilla Road - Open the Gates (epic heavy/power/thrash, excellent stuff)
Liege Lord - Freedom's Rise (excellent power/speed album)
Slauter Xstroyes - Winter Kill (very technical, progressive power metal, really unique)
Martyr - Darkness at Time's Edge (very complex harmonies, some of the best-written stuff ever, sadly unknown album)
Stormwitch - Tales of Terror

Released in '86:
Oblivion - Quest for Power (demo) - vicious dungeon USPM, really some of the best stuff you'll hear.
Sanctuary - 1986 demo - two excellent songs here
Grudge - Barbarians of the New Earth - strange tempos and sweet solos topped with Blackie Lawless-esque vocals make for a great experience
Stormwitch - Stronger than Heaven
Tension - Breaking Point (solid power/speed/thrash)
Manilla Road - The Deluge (some of the best power/thrash ever)
Omen - The Curse
Crimson Glory - s/t (great melodic heavy/power)
Fates Warning - Awaken the Guardian

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Evil_Johnny_666
Reigning king of the night

Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2007 8:54 pm
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Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 8:35 pm 
 

THEMICRULAH wrote:
Autopsy are the first death/doom band. Also, without Autopsy, Swedish death metal wouldn't exist. I get this info from Dan Ekeroth's book. Severed Survival came out in the 80s.

Are you so sure about Swedish death metal not existing if it wasn't for Autopsy? The first Nihilist demo came only a couple of months after the first Autopsy demo (3 months to be precise). Sure Autopsy were and are still very influential but the Swedish death metal scene was pretty unique. There's also a certain d-beat influence that I only noticed quite recently that can be heard in Entombed or God Macabre material for example.

And am I the only one who doesn't like the term death/doom? Well, in the sense that I think it's used way too much, too often as a synonym for slow death metal or death metal with slow passages. Maybe it's been too long since I listened to some Autopsy but I don't remember any doom metal influences in their albums... Maybe it's irrelevant but it's something that's starting to irk me. Are you so sure about Swedish death metal not existing if it wasn't for Autopsy? I don't know how much of an influence their demos were, but the Nihilist material predates Severed Survival.


And I second droneriot's motion of Darkness Descent. Well, I don't think it's that bad but it's one of the most boring and unremarkable thrash albums I heard. Yeah, it's fast and there's lots of riffs but it means nothing if there's barely a decent riff and good drumming pattern. Even the vocals are not that great, the album just leaves me completely lukewarm. It has no personality whatsoever, the sound doesn't conjure anything interesting, it's just so boring and eventless....

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Ilwhyan
Metel fraek

Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 1:41 pm
Posts: 6563
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 6:12 am 
 

lord_ghengis wrote:

I personally count Asphyx as slower death metal, not doom.

I'd go.with Sempiternal Deathreign as first the first death doom myself. And there was.certainly a.bunch of it pre 93.

:scratch: Asphyx is absolutely doom/death metal, although it's not as doom oriented as the Peaceville bands and such. The early albums have lengthy doom passages with despondent guitar leads and hardly any outright death metal riffing. The slow stuff on the new albums is perhaps just slow death metal, but albums like The Rack have substantial amounts of doom in my opinion.
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John_Sunlight
President Satan

Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 4:41 am
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 2:56 pm 
 

Acidgobblin wrote:
John_Sunlight wrote:
I agree with vengefulgoat. With the genre and its conventions firmly established it is no longer incumbent on black metallers to forge a new aesthetic, so they can focus their talents and skills on working the received orthodoxy into new and creative forms while remaining true to the core of black metal.


I would find it troubling if black metal had not yet peaked at least once over the span of nearly thirty years existence...

Of course it has. However, peaking once doesn't mean it will never peak higher in the future. That was my point.
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XcKyle93
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Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2012 7:04 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 10:02 pm 
 

For melodic death/black metal it's late 1995-1996:

Slaughter of the Soul by At the Gates
The Gallery by Dark Tranquillity
Of Chaos and Eternal Night by Dark Tranquillity
Massive Killing Capacity by Dismember
Storm of the Light's Bane by Dissection
Voice of Harmony by Excretion
Tusen ar har gatt.. by Mork Gryning
Ancient God of Evil by Unanimated
If Emotions Still Burn by Ablaze My Sorrow
Sorrow Throughout the Nine Worlds by Amon Amarth
Black Earth by Arch Enemy
Silence of the World Beyond by A Canorous Quintet
Spiteful Intents by Cardinal Sin
Crimson by Edge of Sanity
A Bloodred Path by Gates of Ishtar

Edge of Existence by Hypocrite
The Jester Race by In Flames
For Kunsten Ma Vi Evig Vike by Kvist
Far Away From The Sun by Sacramentum
Lost in the Beauty You Slay by Sacrilege
Welcome My Last Chapter by Vinterland


The ones in bold are my favorites/the albums usually cited as the most influential of the genre. Really everything great from the Gothenburg sound as we know it was made in 95/96, except for TSD by ATG in 1994 and The Somberlain by Dissection in 1993. Sure, bands like Amon Amarth and Soilwork didn't release their bigger releases until a few years down the road, but by that point a lot of the core Gothenburg melodeath/meloblack bands were long gone.
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The Red in the Sky is Ours and select songs off With Fear... is the compositional height of death metal, if not all of metal. Better than ten Super Bowls.


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Smalley
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2009 9:06 am
Posts: 699
PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 10:48 pm 
 

XcKyle93 wrote:
For melodic death/black metal it's late 1995-1996:


Good list, and good catch there that '95/6 was big for melodic black too (and not just melo death), but I'd have to add this record onto that list as well when it comes to great melo death from that era: http://www.metal-archives.com/albums/Hy ... ucted/1020

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Woolie_Wool
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Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 6:56 pm
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Location: Far beyond the prophecy of tyrant guardians
PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2013 1:02 am 
 

Jophelerx wrote:
Power metal is sort of all over the place, but I'd say '84-'86 have probably been the peak years for me at this point.

*snip*



Would the equivalent for European power metal be '95-97? That's when most of the best-known bands either debuted or came into their signature sounds.
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AgentSteel_Razor
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Joined: Fri Nov 15, 2013 8:20 am
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 8:36 am 
 

AcidWorm wrote:
THEMICRULAH wrote:
I think it's rather pessimistic to say that the "peak years" for metal sub-genres have already occured - it implies that there aren't many awesome albums awaiting us in the future :)


If history for metal tells us anything, I think it is not such an unintelligent thing to say. Usually it seems that the peak years for a genre is shortly after that genre is established and before too many bands jump on the bandwagon, or start taking the genre into new directions partly due to the saturation of bands playing the same style. Thrash into groove and death metal into brutal and melodic death are the first to come to mind. Of course this is just my opinion. Take thrash for example, having been established in 1983 and really coming into its own in '85 and '86. Most people would say thrash peaked around '86 to '89

For thrash I would go with 1986 or 1987.

In 1986 there was:
Slayer - Reign in Blood (A lot regard this as the peak of thrash. It is certainly one of the most intense thrash albums recorded without branching out into other genres)
Metallica- Master of Puppets (I wouldn't consider this one of the best albums of the 80s like many think but it is still a great thrash album)
Destruction - Eternal Devastation (Their best album in my opinion)
Sodom - Obsessed by Cruelty (My favorite by them)
Megadeth - Peace Sells (Toss up between this and RiP as their best)
Kreator - Pleasure to Kill (Overrated in my opinion but a lot of people regard it as one of the pinnacles of thrash)
Dark Angel - Darkness Descends (Incredibly fast and Doty's manic vocals are very fitting although a lot of people dislike him)
Sepultura - Morbid Visions (Very raw and more like the other Cogumello bands than their later output)
Possessed - Seven Churches (One of the pioneering releases for death metal. I find this closer to thrash than death metal personally)
Exumer - Possessed by Fire (Only a few songs really get my attention like Fallen Saint but this is certainly the band's peak)
Onslaught - The Force (Their best album in my opinion)
Nuclear Assault - Game Over (One of my favorite thrash bands at their best)
Flotsam and Jetsam - Doomsday for the Deceiver (One of my favorites. Great blend of traditional metal and thrash)
Holy Moses - Queen of Siam (Solid debut but the follow up in 87 is better)
Metal Church - The Dark (USPM, and an excellent album that many people regard as their best)
Tankard - Zombie Attack (Not their best album but still decent from one of the most consistent thrash bands)
Razor - Malicious Intent (It sounds like Razor, not much else to say)
Angel Dust - Into the Dark Past (Pretty good speed/thrash before this band went more into the power metal direction)
Hallow's Eve - Death and Insanity (Good album of bay area sounding thrash, though not the band's peak)
Deathrow - Riders of Doom (one of my favorites for Teutonic speed/thrash)
Carrion - Evil is There (Always liked this one. Fairly sloppy Swiss thrash,and quite dirty and raw)
Detente - Recognize no Authority (Known for being female fronted with Dawn Crosby, and their sole album. Good stuff)
Iron Angel - Winds of War (Hellish Crossfire is better but this is still worth a mention)
Sacrifice - Torment in Fire (Not as good as Forward to Termination but still good. Pretty dirty thrash that reminds me of Slayer though a little sloppy)
Vulcano - Bloody Vengeance (One of the best thrash albums to come out from Brazil. They helped start that raw dirty sound associated with Cogumello records)
Mortal Sin - Mayhemic Destruction (Can be overrated but I love Lebanon)
Nasty Savage - Indulgence (Decent but not as good as the debut)
Messiah - Hymn to Abramelin (They get a mention now and then and is some very good proto-death metal)
Flames - Merciless Slaughter (Good punky thrashy speed metal. Surprised this one doesn't get more recognition)
Cyclone - Brutal Destruction (not amazing but decent enough)
At War - Ordered to Kill (Some love it and some find it average)
Mysto Dysto - The Rules have been Disturbed (Released this before changing the name to Mandator. This is some good speedy thrash that is a little on the technical side and deserving of more attention in my opinion)
Wrath - Fit of Anger (I prefer the follow up Nothing to Fear from 87')
Sentinel Beast - Depths of Death (Female fronted speed/thrash. Shame this was their only album)
Hexx - Under the Spell (Thrashy USPM. Not sure why it doesn't get more love. Metal Church fans should dig it.)
S.D.I. - S/T (follow up is better but worth a mention for speed/thrash)
Turbo - Kawaleria Szatana (This is often regarded as an underrated classic. I don't tend to listen to it due to the language barrier but it is some yummy thrashy traditional metal)
Taurus - Signo de Taurus (From Brazil but does not sound like Cogumello bands but closer to the bay area. It's all in Portuguese I think as well. Very underrated band in my opinion)
Lobotomia - S/T (Crossover that is a little sloppy and not as good as their follow up but worth a mention)
Necronomicon - Necronomicon (A lot of people regard this as just a forgettable b-rated Destruction or Sodom clone but I like the album)
I was going to do a list for 1987 but this took longer than expected for 1986. Perhaps later. However, this does represent the sheer volume of thrash albums coming out in '86 and there are others that I didn't feel made the cut.


Great fucking mighty list AcidWorm. I've highlighted what I agree with.

Master of Puppets is a dwarf amongst those albums, just saying!

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