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DecayingYears95
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Oct 02, 2013 4:15 pm
Posts: 63
PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 9:29 am 
 

FasterDisaster wrote:
Please learn to read. My first sentence was questioning the validity of those statements by others.

:facepalm:


I know. I'm putting in my own opinion to those questions, that's all.

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Need4Power
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Joined: Tue Oct 22, 2013 8:28 pm
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 6:34 pm 
 

I refuse to believe that Overkill has sold 25 million albums. I just saw them in Philadelphia and the place wasn't even sold out, there were probably only 1,000 people there. Whereas, I saw Manowar, a band that has only sold 9 million albums, in Cleveland, a much smaller town, sell out a ballroom that packed several thousand people.

It just doesn't make sense.

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DecayingYears95
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Joined: Wed Oct 02, 2013 4:15 pm
Posts: 63
PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 12:45 am 
 

Need4Power wrote:
I refuse to believe that Overkill has sold 25 million albums. I just saw them in Philadelphia and the place wasn't even sold out, there were probably only 1,000 people there. Whereas, I saw Manowar, a band that has only sold 9 million albums, in Cleveland, a much smaller town, sell out a ballroom that packed several thousand people.

It just doesn't make sense.


Well it depends on the area they're in. I'm not saying Overkill sold 25 million worldwide (as you'll see in my earlier comments I showed how they most likely didn't) but they're bigger in some areas than others, Philly hasn't been their strong suit, Overkill's bigger in areas like Florida, Ohio (Cleveland in particular lmao), and the New England area Especially in New York, New Jersey, and California. They may not always be sold out in those areas a lot but they're usually filled pretty well. Plus I believe they're bigger over in Europe (Germany in particular) than they are here. Also ManOWar sold 9 million?! I thought they were over 10 million for sure.


Last edited by DecayingYears95 on Wed Nov 06, 2013 9:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Need4Power
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 12:26 pm 
 

According to wikipedia Manowar has sold "over 9 million", but again, it is wikipedia, so we don't really know for sure.

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Riffs
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 1:48 pm 
 

Need4Power wrote:
I refuse to believe that Overkill has sold 25 million albums. I just saw them in Philadelphia and the place wasn't even sold out, there were probably only 1,000 people there. Whereas, I saw Manowar, a band that has only sold 9 million albums, in Cleveland, a much smaller town, sell out a ballroom that packed several thousand people.

It just doesn't make sense.


Not that I believe a minute Overkill is as commercially successful as wikipedia pretends but one must be careful when looking at touring.

Overkill is very present in North America, where they tour heavily all the time. Manowar has an entirely different touring model based on scarcity. You don't get to catch them all that often in a North American town and when you do, it's likely that they attract a bunch of people from nearby towns and even farther.

You'd have to compare Overkill with bands that have similar touring habits. Even then, that doesn't tell you as much as hard data on sales.
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DecayingYears95
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Joined: Wed Oct 02, 2013 4:15 pm
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 9:36 pm 
 

http://www.setlist.fm/setlists/overkill-6bd69e9a.html

http://www.setlist.fm/setlists/manowar-53d683a9.html

According to setlist.com, Overkill's toured almost 100 more times than Manowar has. Granted that setlist.com isn't 100% complete but either way it's still a pretty large gap. Also Manowar's had 12 studio albums, Overkill's had 16 going on 17. I can see Overkill outselling Manowar but not 25-9 million. I'd guess they outsold them more like 16-13 million.

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Need4Power
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Oct 22, 2013 8:28 pm
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 12:02 am 
 

That's a really neat website, I never knew about that before.

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DecayingYears95
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Oct 02, 2013 4:15 pm
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 12:05 am 
 

Need4Power wrote:
That's a really neat website, I never knew about that before.


Yeah it's pretty cool. It shows where they've played, which songs they play the most, where they play the most, etc.

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tomcat_ha
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 10:21 pm 
 

Manowar is huge i doubt overkill sold more

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DecayingYears95
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Joined: Wed Oct 02, 2013 4:15 pm
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 11:44 pm 
 

tomcat_ha wrote:
Manowar is huge i doubt overkill sold more


Huge where? I don't know a lot about Manowar.

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shwartzheim
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Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2011 5:49 am
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 12:23 am 
 

Manowar is huge in terms of obsessive fan dedication and possibly influence, otherwise even in their prime they weren't even big.
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DecayingYears95
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 12:58 am 
 

shwartzheim wrote:
Manowar is huge in terms of obsessive fan dedication and possibly influence, otherwise even in their prime they weren't even big.


So they're not a popular band but they're fan base is die-hard loyal?

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shwartzheim
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 1:18 am 
 

Pretty much.
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DecayingYears95
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Joined: Wed Oct 02, 2013 4:15 pm
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 9:55 am 
 

shwartzheim wrote:
Pretty much.


I just looked them up and Manowar's had 4 Gold albums in Germany. So that's gotta count for something lmao. Normally that's be enough to convince me that they've sold more than Overkill but Atlantic was AWFUL when it came to giving Certifications. They still haven't awarded Gold to Testament's Practice What You Preach when it sold 450,000 copies in America 21 YEARS AGO, and The Ritual selling 485,000 copies as of almost 8 years ago, I'm pretty sure they've had a few Gold selling records in many other countries as well. So I'm sure they're jiffing Overkill with some Certifications too. I'd need more numbers to decide.

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HamburgerBoy
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 5:20 pm 
 

Fighting the World, Kings of Metal, and The Triumph of Steel were on Atlantic as well.

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DecayingYears95
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Joined: Wed Oct 02, 2013 4:15 pm
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 5:59 pm 
 

HamburgerBoy wrote:
Fighting the World, Kings of Metal, and The Triumph of Steel were on Atlantic as well.


Actually Fighting the World was on Atco I know that much lol. But the other 2 were on Atlantic like you said, I never knew that. Wait does anybody know the process for getting a Gold Record?

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Need4Power
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Joined: Tue Oct 22, 2013 8:28 pm
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 6:07 pm 
 

Gold record means 500,000 copies sold.
Platinum means 1,000,000 copies sold.

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HamburgerBoy
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 6:12 pm 
 

DecayingYears95 wrote:
HamburgerBoy wrote:
Fighting the World, Kings of Metal, and The Triumph of Steel were on Atlantic as well.


Actually Fighting the World was on Atco I know that much lol. But the other 2 were on Atlantic like you said, I never knew that. Wait does anybody know the process for getting a Gold Record?


Atco was a subsidiary of Atlantic and the CDs clearly say copyright Atlantic Recording Corporation, just as Overkill's label was still Megaforce.

Gold and platinum are relative the countries they're in, by the way. Germany's standard is significantly lower than 500,000/1,000,000 respectively that the USA has.

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DecayingYears95
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 6:44 pm 
 

HamburgerBoy wrote:

Atco was a subsidiary of Atlantic and the CDs clearly say copyright Atlantic Recording Corporation, just as Overkill's label was still Megaforce.

Gold and platinum are relative the countries they're in, by the way. Germany's standard is significantly lower than 500,000/1,000,000 respectively that the USA has.


I didn't know that about Atco. Yeah it used to be 250,000 was Gold and 500,000 was Platinum in Germany, as of recently it's become 100,000 is Gold and 200,000 is Platinum. Also what is the process to get a record certified Gold/Platinum? I heard the band/somebody has to pay money and apply for one. Does anyone know?

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Marky Mark
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Joined: Sat Oct 26, 2013 11:55 pm
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 1:48 am 
 

Faster Than You wrote:
And this is important how? I mean Lady Gaga, Katy Perry, and whoever else is popular sells millions of singles and albums, but that still doesn't mean their music doesn't suck.


Some people find record sales and these sort of statistics interesting. I am one of those people and was actually happy to see a thread here on relating to metal sales as it is relatively hard to find sales for most metal bands. I don't think the OP was basing any of this on the quality of Overkill, but rather because he was simply interested.

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Marky Mark
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 1:51 am 
 

I didn't know that about Atco. Yeah it used to be 250,000 was Gold and 500,000 was Platinum in Germany, as of recently it's become 100,000 is Gold and 200,000 is Platinum. Also what is the process to get a record certified Gold/Platinum? I heard the band/somebody has to pay money and apply for one. Does anyone know?[/quote]

I think the record company pays for the certification but I could be wrong.

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DecayingYears95
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Joined: Wed Oct 02, 2013 4:15 pm
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 10:37 am 
 

Marky Mark wrote:

I think the record company pays for the certification but I could be wrong.


So I guess they decided to pay for some Certifications but not others? I've read that they didn't give Overkill a lot of attention like Blitz said that one time they were talking to someone in Atlantic about promotion of their new album at the time (either I Hear Black or W.F.O. I can't remember which) and the guy just walked out on them right in the middle of the meeting because one of the bigger bands was on the phone.

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tomcat_ha
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Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 8:05 am
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 12:03 pm 
 

DecayingYears95 wrote:
tomcat_ha wrote:
Manowar is huge i doubt overkill sold more


Huge where? I don't know a lot about Manowar.


They are definitely one of the biggest metal bands in Europe. They draw bigger crowds than Judas Priest does here.

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Zodijackyl
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Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 5:39 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 12:56 pm 
 

What's the last Manowar album that even charted in the US? Gods of War was #20 on the Heatseekers chart, that's probably around 1000 copies in the first week in the US. The two following that certainly didn't sell much (they didn't even announce sales/charts in the US). The German certifications are also a good indication - the first four Manowar albums were on small labels and they weren't well known at the time. While they eventually became known to die-hard metalheads, they had little mainstream exposure in those prime years before 1987. They weren't on a sizable label until '87, and they weren't exactly getting thrown into mainstream view in '87. They really only had two albums in solid distribution in the prime years for metal in the US, with a third coming in '92, and a fourth not until 1996 - long past the prime time for most metal markets. Overkill got started on a much better label and cranked out more albums at better times, and stayed active through the 90s. Manowar's reputation was really built in the 90s in Germany where the "true metal" thing was huge, it began in the 80s but they weren't nearly as big or well known as other bands.

Also, Manowar's website says they sold 9m in the promo bit for this album: http://www.manowar.com/godsofwar/info.htm

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Acrobat
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 3:14 pm 
 

Zodijackyl wrote:
What's the last Manowar album that even charted in the US? Gods of War was #20 on the Heatseekers chart, that's probably around 1000 copies in the first week in the US. The two following that certainly didn't sell much (they didn't even announce sales/charts in the US). The German certifications are also a good indication - the first four Manowar albums were on small labels and they weren't well known at the time. While they eventually became known to die-hard metalheads, they had little mainstream exposure in those prime years before 1987. They weren't on a sizable label until '87, and they weren't exactly getting thrown into mainstream view in '87. They really only had two albums in solid distribution in the prime years for metal in the US, with a third coming in '92, and a fourth not until 1996 - long past the prime time for most metal markets. Overkill got started on a much better label and cranked out more albums at better times, and stayed active through the 90s. Manowar's reputation was really built in the 90s in Germany where the "true metal" thing was huge, it began in the 80s but they weren't nearly as big or well known as other bands.

Also, Manowar's website says they sold 9m in the promo bit for this album: http://www.manowar.com/godsofwar/info.htm


You sure about this, Zodi? Forgive me but I think you're being a little American-centric here. The US market was never Manowar's most important market (far from it even). Remember Hail to England? Well, even prior to that album Manowar were playing large venues across the UK (Newcastle City Hall, Hammersmith etc) whereas Overkill were supporting Anthrax on their first European tour (this was prior to Anthrax being HUGE as well). And Music for Nations was hardly a small label (basically, they were putting out stuff like Metallica and Mercyful Fate in Europe). Manowar were definitely a big band in the 1980s, too.
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DecayingYears95
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Joined: Wed Oct 02, 2013 4:15 pm
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 4:25 pm 
 

I'm reading a little about Manowar and appear fly they were/are pretty big in Europe. The only red flag for me is still setlist.com, like I said before, it's incomplete but to be about 100 shows behind Overkill is still making it confusing.

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Need4Power
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Joined: Tue Oct 22, 2013 8:28 pm
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 5:33 pm 
 

Lately Manowar's approach to touring is to play as many huge festivals as they can, as opposed to Overkill's approach of more shows, smaller venues. Overkill has more tour dates, but the venues are smaller. I wouldn't necessarily say that Manowar draws more fans overall, it's just that they are more selective as to where and when they play.

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DecayingYears95
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 9:16 pm 
 

Need4Power wrote:
Lately Manowar's approach to touring is to play as many huge festivals as they can, as opposed to Overkill's approach of more shows, smaller venues. Overkill has more tour dates, but the venues are smaller. I wouldn't necessarily say that Manowar draws more fans overall, it's just that they are more selective as to where and when they play.


Overkill does big gigs from time to time IE San Bernardino with Megadeth, Iron Maiden, Anthrax, Testament, etc. as well as Wacken every so often. Plus Overkill's gotten a bit of renewed popularity recently as demonstrated by the higher chart positions, recent music videos, and higher sales numbers.

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Terri23
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 9:22 pm 
 

DecayingYears95 wrote:
I'm reading a little about Manowar and appear fly they were/are pretty big in Europe. The only red flag for me is still setlist.com, like I said before, it's incomplete but to be about 100 shows behind Overkill is still making it confusing.


They played an average of 3 shows less a year for 33 years. Why does this bother you? Why is this confusing? I'll also refrain from pointing out why wiki content is retarded.
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DecayingYears95
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 9:33 pm 
 

Terri23 wrote:
DecayingYears95 wrote:
I'm reading a little about Manowar and appear fly they were/are pretty big in Europe. The only red flag for me is still setlist.com, like I said before, it's incomplete but to be about 100 shows behind Overkill is still making it confusing.


They played an average of 3 shows less a year for 33 years. Why does this bother you? Why is this confusing? I'll also refrain from pointing out why wiki content is retarded.


It's not that it's bothering me, it's just that it doesn't add up as well. Also this isn't wiki content.

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Terri23
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 9:43 pm 
 

Setlist most certainly is a wiki. I don't see why you don't get it. I mean, 33 years of playing shows, and they play 3 less shows a year on average. Do you think they should play exactly the same amount of shows or something? Do you think that when every band goes on tour, they play the exact same circuit and bars, theaters, auditoriums and stadiums, year after year, as every other band?
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DecayingYears95
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 11:12 pm 
 

Terri23 wrote:
Setlist most certainly is a wiki. I don't see why you don't get it. I mean, 33 years of playing shows, and they play 3 less shows a year on average. Do you think they should play exactly the same amount of shows or something? Do you think that when every band goes on tour, they play the exact same circuit and bars, theaters, auditoriums and stadiums, year after year, as every other band?


I'm not saying they should never stop touring or that they should have to play as much as other bands, I'm saying I find it a little harder to believe they sold more if they haven't toured as much.

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DecayingYears95
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 11:26 pm 
 

Does anyone know how Ironbound and The Electric Age are doing sales wise? Last I saw Ironbound sold 15,000 after it's first 3 months and The Electric Age had 6,700 copies in its first week. I'm really interested to see how those 2 albums are doing from a statistical standpoint, especially considering they're Overkill's highest charting/best-selling albums since the early 90's.

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Terri23
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 8:43 am 
 

DecayingYears95 wrote:
I'm not saying they should never stop touring or that they should have to play as much as other bands, I'm saying I find it a little harder to believe they sold more if they haven't toured as much.


Having Atlantic backing them had a lot to do with it.
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DecayingYears95
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 8:48 am 
 

Terri23 wrote:
DecayingYears95 wrote:
I'm not saying they should never stop touring or that they should have to play as much as other bands, I'm saying I find it a little harder to believe they sold more if they haven't toured as much.


Having Atlantic backing them had a lot to do with it.


Whataya mean? Also both of them were on Atlantic at the same time.

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Zodijackyl
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 4:59 pm 
 

Manowar put out two albums on Atlantic. Overkill put out five on the same label in roughly the same time. Consider that Overkill was on a major label starting right around when thrash became really popular, and Manowar had already put out five albums before signing with a major label, when heavy/power metal wasn't as new/hot as thrash.

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DecayingYears95
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 7:01 pm 
 

Zodijackyl wrote:
Manowar put out two albums on Atlantic. Overkill put out five on the same label in roughly the same time. Consider that Overkill was on a major label starting right around when thrash became really popular, and Manowar had already put out five albums before signing with a major label, when heavy/power metal wasn't as new/hot as thrash.


That's true. Manowar technically had 3 (counting the Atco one) and Overkill had 7 under Atlantic.

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DecayingYears95
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2013 11:53 pm 
 

Ever notice that they almost never update band's sales numbers on websites like Blabbermouth? Like for the past year and a half when I've read articles about Overkill they've used the same numbers the whole time. They only write it sold 6,500 copies in its debut week and that it hit #77 on the Billboard 200. I don't get why the don't give some kind of sales update, they used to do it with Horrorscope and The Formation of Damnation, but I haven't seen them do it since with anybody.

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into_the_pit
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 8:27 am 
 

that's because hardly anyone cares about things like this except for OCD's.

also, blabbermouth is a site for metal-related news and gossip, not a database for metal album sales. they'll post sales of an album when it's NEW, in the first week or so, then it will fade into oblivion.
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DecayingYears95
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 9:05 am 
 

into_the_pit wrote:
that's because hardly anyone cares about things like this except for OCD's.

also, blabbermouth is a site for metal-related news and gossip, not a database for metal album sales. they'll post sales of an album when it's NEW, in the first week or so, then it will fade into oblivion.


What I'm saying is that they used to do it but they stopped recently.

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