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Deaderthebetter
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2013 11:14 pm
Posts: 50
PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 2:55 pm 
 

Is it Phil Anselmo? Didn't like Dimebag's riffs? The fact that they hit the mainstream, hit #1 in the US and showed on MTV? Metallica changed their sound to such an extent that there's a lot of dislike post-Justice or at least Post-Black Album (Black Album for me,) but Pantera never really changed to that great an extent, though Anselmo's vocals got much lower and more gravelly post-Cowboys From Hell.

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somefella
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Location: Singapore
PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 3:16 pm 
 

I guess some people have an issue with the tough guy vocals or the scooped sound. I felt they were one of the few bands who were able to pull it off though. I know a lot of people hate how overrated they are too, though I think they're a good band. Not the best thing since sliced bread, but good songs, have their own sound, and very very tight musicians. Dimebag is no Malmsteen or Friedman but he doesn't try to be, he just does his thing and does it well. His rhythm and lead chops are undoubtedly excellent, though admittedly overrated by Pantera fanboys. He did do well at a Megadeth audition, just didn't join because Vince couldn't join as well, which I can respect too.
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Atropus
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Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 3:17 pm 
 

I think it's because they started the whole trend of 90s groove metal, complete with annoying mosh breaks, tough guy posturing, sexist lyrics full of annoying "fuck you motherfucker" phrases that wouldn't sound out of place in hip hop, and just in general creating the whole niche of "metal for jocks".

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Empyreal
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 3:24 pm 
 

Atropus wrote:
I think it's because they started the whole trend of 90s groove metal, complete with annoying mosh breaks, tough guy posturing, sexist lyrics full of annoying "fuck you motherfucker" phrases that wouldn't sound out of place in hip hop, and just in general creating the whole niche of "metal for jocks".


Are they really sexist? I don't see much of that in the stuff that this thread is talking about, i.e. the 90s groove metal stuff. Most of it isn't all that "fuck you motherfucker" oriented either...
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ShaolinLambKiller
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 3:39 pm 
 

Or could it be that some people just don't like that style regardless of who is playing it.
Or it could be they obviously went the groove metal toughguy image when the hair metal look and music wasn't working for them.
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BasqueStorm
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Joined: Wed May 26, 2010 2:21 pm
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 4:09 pm 
 

Atropus wrote:
I think it's because they started the whole trend of 90s groove metal, complete with annoying mosh breaks, tough guy posturing, sexist lyrics full of annoying "fuck you motherfucker" phrases that wouldn't sound out of place in hip hop, and just in general creating the whole niche of "metal for jocks".

ShaolinLambKiller wrote:
Or it could be they obviously went the groove metal toughguy image when the hair metal look and music wasn't working for them.

+1. I like their music but I can understand this.

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OneSizeFitzpatrick
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 4:21 pm 
 

Coming from someone who has never understood the hype around Pantera I'd say the musicianship is pretty mediocre on the whole (this includes guitars as well, sorry, I just don't think dimebag Darrel was that great of a guitarist) but also their fan base in general just kinda sucks, most likely due to that tough guy image that they cashed in on. I liken alotta them to slipknot's "maggots" in the sense that alot of em don't really listen to metal outside of that one particular band and will continuously remind everyone how amazing dimebag/Joey jordinson are.
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themicrulah
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 4:23 pm 
 

They have some of the most boring guitar riffs I have ever heard in my life with VERY FEW exceptions, I'm Broken has the only riff I like, and that's because it's basically a Black Sabbath riff. Everything else is just DUN DUN CHUGALUG BEEEEEEEEEENNNNNDDDD DUN CHUGALUG DUN BEENNNDD with some generic shredding thrown over the top of it and Phil Anselmo bursting a blood vessel.

Down are what Pantera could have been if they weren't trying to get a bunch of grammies or whatever the fuck.
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veyita88
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Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 9:49 pm
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 4:43 pm 
 

Some people dont like the tough guy posturing, but they are also an easy target.

Quote:
Coming from someone who has never understood the hype around Pantera I'd say the musicianship is pretty mediocre on the whole (this includes guitars as well, sorry, I just don't think dimebag Darrel was that great of a guitarist) but also their fan base in general just kinda sucks, most likely due to that tough guy image that they cashed in on. I liken alotta them to slipknot's "maggots" in the sense that alot of em don't really listen to metal outside of that one particular band and will continuously remind everyone how amazing dimebag/Joey jordinson are.


All Pantera fans i have met listen to plenty of metal.

Quote:
They have some of the most boring guitar riffs I have ever heard in my life with VERY FEW exceptions, I'm Broken has the only riff I like, and that's because it's basically a Black Sabbath riff. Everything else is just DUN DUN CHUGALUG BEEEEEEEEEENNNNNDDDD DUN CHUGALUG DUN BEENNNDD with some generic shredding thrown over the top of it and Phil Anselmo bursting a blood vessel.


I dont think that the album Cowboys from Hell is like that.
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true_death
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Joined: Thu Sep 26, 2013 6:47 pm
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 4:51 pm 
 

Same reason I don't like Motorhead, AC/DC, Van Halen, or Aerosmith...the music is not interesting to me. I hate to give a response like that, but it's true...it's just not music that moves or inspires me. I respect Dimebag and (especially) Phil Anselmo...but yeah. I also think that some of the people who "hate" Pantera are just internet hipsters who want to show off their "elitist taste" on a relatively well-liked band. I know that's a cliche response these days and more often than not, just a scapegoat for an "open-minded" person to put down someone with more selective tastes, but occasionally I have seen that stereotype become a reality. Like on Blabbermouth, where an entire conversation of aggreeance will form from someone saying that "Dimebag was irrelevant because all guitarists are interchangeable", or here, where someone with a username like "Timeghoul_666" mocks Dimebag's death and says he deserved it.
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themicrulah
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 4:53 pm 
 

Well, even if it's not, it's still horribly generic and a piece of garbage. I've listened to it many times and I don't think I'll ever torture myself by trying to listen to it again. I can play a few riffs from the title track and it is indeed plagued with the chuggalugga bend shit that I despise.
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MARSDUDE
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Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 5:04 pm 
 

I hate those stop-start riffs.
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Diamhea
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 5:12 pm 
 

It sucks what happened to Dimebag, but because of his death he has become unfairly praised and become overrated. It is insane. I was in a local venue the other day and saw a poster for a "DIMEBAG TRIBUTE SHOW" now nearly ten years later. Apparently there is also something called "Ride for Dime" where people ride motorcycles in his honor. Where will it end?
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vengefulgoat
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 5:17 pm 
 

Well, maybe people hate Pantera because they recorded no good music during their CoH and onwards era? Maybe because Pantera fanbase makes you wish for more Nathan Gales around?

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Empyreal
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 5:21 pm 
 

vengefulgoat wrote:
Well, maybe people hate Pantera because they recorded no good music during their CoH and onwards era? Maybe because Pantera fanbase makes you wish for more Nathan Gales around?


Black metal fans are far worse in every aspect than Pantera fans.
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AcidWorm
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 5:24 pm 
 

The reason why I don't like them is the heavy, guitar chugging, and the tough guy vocals. Cowboy from Hell is good but after that, not so much.

Walk has to be one of the most obnoxious songs I have heard. So repetitive and I used to have to hear it a lot. I don't understand the appeal to it.
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conquer__all
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Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2011 5:49 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 5:25 pm 
 

Never liked this band. They were glam when glam was big but never made it so they decided to act tough and play meathead metal, this was the band the football and wrestling jocks were into when I was in high school in the early 90's, you know the same meatheads that gave me and my friends shit for liking Metallica in the late 80's. This was the band that took metallica's place as the band that most jocks and douches liked but they didn't touch extreme metal(which I'm glad for). They are also responsible for influencing soooo many shitty metalcore bands that are still around today.
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vengefulgoat
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Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2011 9:15 am
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Location: Poland
PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 5:28 pm 
 

Empyreal wrote:
vengefulgoat wrote:
Well, maybe people hate Pantera because they recorded no good music during their CoH and onwards era? Maybe because Pantera fanbase makes you wish for more Nathan Gales around?


Black metal fans are far worse in every aspect than Pantera fans.

Not really sure what you are attempting.

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iloveblackmetal
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Dec 25, 2012 3:30 pm
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Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 5:33 pm 
 

I think they have the whole " I AM SO TOUGH!!!!!1"mentality. I see it like they tried to hard.

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Ball Cupper
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Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 6:17 pm 
 

I gotta admit, a bunch of people being all like "oh it's meathead jock music" kinda comes across as a bunch of high school nerds being shoved into a locker or something.

Not that I like Pantera, I don't really like start-stop riffs and the vocals don't do much for me, but damn.
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themicrulah
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 6:24 pm 
 

Yeah, I was shoved into a lot of lockers as a kid and am a wimpy cry-baby because I think Pantera's attitude comes off as a bit forced.

:wanker:

Phil Anselmo broke his back because he jumped into the crowed and landed on concrete, and everyone knows what happened as a result of his injuries. xSOx xTUFFx
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lord_ghengis
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Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2006 8:31 pm
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Location: Australia
PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 6:31 pm 
 

Basically just the chugga chugga riffing style for me, I don't have any issues with the tough guy stuff ("Be Yourself, By Yourself" is pretty dang funny), nor Phil's vocals, as he had a pretty nice all out screech and he knew how to layer himself nicely (see 5 Minutes Alone). But yeah the chugga chugga riffs get old fast, get repeated for disgusting amounts of time, and really became completely obsolete to the other styles of metal as soon as I discovered them. Also Vinny is boring drummer which makes the songs drag even harder that they already would have.
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Ball Cupper
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Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 7:51 pm
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Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 6:37 pm 
 

THEMICRULAH wrote:
Yeah, I was shoved into a lot of lockers as a kid and am a wimpy cry-baby because I think Pantera's attitude comes off as a bit forced.

:wanker:

Yeah I was totally talking about you, and not the people literally saying "in general creating the whole niche of 'metal for jocks'" or "this was the band the football and wrestling jocks were into when I was in high school" you god damn turbo-shitbird. Empty posturing sucks, but whining about "jocks" sucks more.


Everyone should listen to Power Metal right now, even the glam songs are pretty cool. Kinda reminds me of Motley Crue, only with more metal.

Edit: woah I say horrible things sometimes. Sorry, you are not a Turbo Shitbird.
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Last edited by Ball Cupper on Sun Dec 08, 2013 6:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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themicrulah
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2011 12:00 am
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 6:38 pm 
 

Ball Cupper wrote:
THEMICRULAH wrote:
Yeah, I was shoved into a lot of lockers as a kid and am a wimpy cry-baby because I think Pantera's attitude comes off as a bit forced.

:wanker:

Yeah I was totally talking about you, and not the people literally saying "in general creating the whole niche of 'metal for jocks'" or "this was the band the football and wrestling jocks were into when I was in high school" you god damn turbo-shitbird. Empty posturing sucks, but whining about "jocks" sucks more.


Everyone should listen to Power Metal right now, even the glam songs are pretty cool. Kinda reminds me of Motley Crue, only with more metal.

Are you cupping your balls at this very moment?
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volutetheswarth
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 6:42 pm 
 

General gist I get is most don't like them because of the tough guy attitude. Which is silly because it's theatrics and apart from a few drugged out interviews isn't who the band was. There's also a mildly large fan base for the first couple of records and those select fans feel pissed on because the band ditched the look and then the music. I guess these fans want Phil to drop to his knees and apologise for not acknowledging their past and beg a thousand-times forgiveness. Also most believe the crowd Pantera breeds is pre-determined to be drunk cavemen in wife beaters, that notion alone is enough to cause a shitstorm.

Secondary to this is simply groove metal, many really just hate it for whatever reason, which is of course a matter of taste.


Last edited by volutetheswarth on Sun Dec 08, 2013 6:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Ball Cupper
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 7:51 pm
Posts: 235
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 6:43 pm 
 

THEMICRULAH wrote:
Are you cupping your balls at this very moment?

What kind of dumb question is that? Of course I am, much like how Pantera haters should cup their balls cos I'm gonna drop them in the knackers ahahaha
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themicrulah
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 6:54 pm 
 

I'm so threatened.
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Ball Cupper
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Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 7:51 pm
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Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 7:03 pm 
 

THEMICRULAH wrote:
I'm so threatened.

I was just joshin with ya, no hard feelings. :)

I wonder if Phil Anselmo acknowledges Pantera's superior glam past? I know that if a musician hates their musical past, they can sometimes come around (such as Tom G Warrior with Hellhammer), has he commented on this before? Is he aware that Pantera sounds like Panera?
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ClaymanOnFire
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Location: Nice try, Big Brother
PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 7:34 pm 
 

I can enjoy them from time to time, but in kind of an ironic way. It's fun music to listen to with friends and grimace at each other.

EDIT:
BallCupper wrote:
Is he aware that Pantera sounds like Panera?


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Huldrelok
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Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2009 10:01 pm
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 7:56 pm 
 

Phil Anselmo probably deserves credit for much of the Pantera hate, besides the poor musicianship and lack of interesting material post Cowboys... Phil made a point of telling MDF management/security that no one is allowed in the fest (A F'n DEATH/BLACK/THRASH/DOOM FEST) with a bullet belt, spikes, etc. If he knows that people are going to throw shit at him, why even come to MDF, there are always a few bands that just do not belong, how awkward it must be that 80% of people do not want you there, and you are ruining their evening by telling them what to wear. To me you have no respect for the fans, or other musicians if you just go to a fest to play and leave and try to avoid any confrontations.
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Exigence
Age: 29 (Wait, what?!)

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Location: New Orleans
PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 9:11 pm 
 

I don't listen to a lot of Pantera but some stuff is god damn awesome...like "Fiver Minutes Alone". Fuck that's a good one to run to.

But I also fucking love Pro-Pain (new album smokes) so I'm on the up and up with 'tough guy' music.

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~Guest 282118
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 9:28 pm 
 

vengefulgoat wrote:
Well, maybe people hate Pantera because they recorded no good music during their CoH and onwards era? Maybe because Pantera fanbase makes you wish for more Nathan Gales around?

Complaining about other people's behavior while acting like a complete douche yourself doesn't do much for your case.

Pantera's kind of a love 'em or hate 'em band; their style works for me, for the most part, but it's easy to see why it doesn't work for others.

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SkullFracturingNightmare
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 9:35 pm 
 

I'm not nearly as crazy about Pantera as I was when I was first getting into metal, but I still enjoy some Cowboys From Hell and Far Beyond Driven every now and then. I can fully understand why people aren't into them though.
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IanThrash
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 9:35 pm 
 

Pantera's fanbase around here isn't remotely the most annoying, and most of their fans listen to a lot of other bands. IDK how Pantera's fans act up there in North America, but come on guys...Dimebag pulled some really great riffs and chops, Phil Anselmo was a GREAT singer, give 'em some credit! Cowboys from Hell is full of great riffs, solos and outstanding vocal performances.
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Necroticism174
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 9:40 pm 
 

ShaolinLambKiller wrote:
Or could it be that some people just don't like that style regardless of who is playing it.
Or it could be they obviously went the groove metal toughguy image when the hair metal look and music wasn't working for them.
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Lightsbane
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 9:45 pm 
 

Atropus wrote:
I think it's because they started the whole trend of 90s groove metal, complete with annoying mosh breaks, tough guy posturing, sexist lyrics full of annoying "fuck you motherfucker" phrases that wouldn't sound out of place in hip hop, and just in general creating the whole niche of "metal for jocks".


Sexist lyrics? What are you talking about. A "bitch" here or there in a song doesn't make you sexist.
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volutetheswarth
Our Lady of Perpetual Butthurt

Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2011 8:37 pm
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Location: Australia
PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 9:59 pm 
 

vengefulgoat wrote:
Maybe because Pantera fanbase makes you wish for more Nathan Gales around?
What a swell world that would be. Hands down dumbest comment in this thread.

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Nameless_Rites
Metal newbie

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 10:01 pm 
 

I think people who like more romantic genres of metal (black, doom, power etc) with fantasy/historical/etc lyrics or a more intellectual appearance(prog) tend to hate their blue collar, "keep it at the street level" attitude, blues based riffing, redneck image etc. It really is a matter of taste but it is undeniable that Pantera did attract a lot of beer bellied white trash dudes to metal.

Personally I think Pantera are fucking stupid, but I don't feel like they really "brought down" metal on any intellectual level. There's been so much stupid imagery and bad aesthetic choices in metal practically since it started, why start worrying about it now? I always thought true metal was not giving a fuck what pretentious goobers thought of you, which is the one thing Pantera succeeded at doing IMO.

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BaloroftheEvilEye
Metalhead

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 10:11 pm 
 

I think they get a lot of hate because they are insanely popular entry-level metal, are, ironically, the most blatant sellouts around and are strongly associated and apparently influential to the nu metal scene, and of course some folk just don't care for their sound either way. That said, they have made some catchy, powerful songs, Anslemo had an amazing voice and Dime especially created some beautiful solos, regardless of technical proficiency.


THEMICRULAH wrote:
Well, even if it's not, it's still horribly generic and a piece of garbage.


How is a band that pioneered a style "generic"? Do you call early Slayer albums "generic"? ONE band sounded vaguely like Pantera back when CFH was released, and with VDoP, they went further in that direction again.

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themicrulah
Metalhead

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 10:14 pm 
 

Thunking the open E string and bending it is pretty generic when all you do is mix Sabbath-esque riffs with it.
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