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Your opinion on Sepultura, Soulfly and Cavalera Conspiracy

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LeMiserable
Milhouse van Houten

Joined: Sun Dec 08, 2013 7:42 am
Posts: 567
Location: Netherlands

Posted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 11:30 am

Well? What do you guys think of 'em? I think all 3 of them are awesome, and always have been...

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tomcat_ha about me bashing BastardHead's musical taste wrote:

i would normally use the saying pot calling the kettle black but in your case its more like a black hole calling a kettle black.

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The Infamous Bastard
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Nov 18, 2013 7:47 am
Posts: 310

Posted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 11:45 am

"Beneath the Remains" is one of my all-time favorite albums. I also like many other releases by Sepultura, even "Chaos AD". Never really bothered seriously listening to the other two bands at all.

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TheDefiniteArticle
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Oct 26, 2010 9:50 am
Posts: 469
Location: United Kingdom

Posted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 11:47 am

I dislike everything done by the three apart from Sepultura up to 'Arise', and even then, BtR and Arise itself are considerably weaker than the other stuff.

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LVB
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Sep 20, 2008 11:26 am
Posts: 204

Posted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 11:52 am

I remember when I first heard Soulfly. It was the first album, and back then I had no idea what I was in for. What a steaming pile of crap that was!

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VoidOfEternity
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2009 12:18 pm
Posts: 279

Posted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 12:07 pm

I enjoy early Sepultura - basically the same albums everyone who says that will tell you. Never really liked Soulfly or Cavalera Conspiracy. I picked up "Enslaved" not long after it was released and it basically went in one ear, out the other. I recall it being fine modern groove / thrash and Max's voice being pretty solid, but not terribly interesting overall. I suppose I should revisit it at some point, but my "to listen" pile is pretty large, so who knows when that'll be.

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LeMiserable
Milhouse van Houten

Joined: Sun Dec 08, 2013 7:42 am
Posts: 567
Location: Netherlands

Posted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 12:15 pm

It seems the early Soulfly albums are quite a laughing stock in here... I haven't listened to them actively yet, but I can't imagine they're THAT bad?

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tomcat_ha about me bashing BastardHead's musical taste wrote:

i would normally use the saying pot calling the kettle black but in your case its more like a black hole calling a kettle black.

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ShaolinLambKiller
King Asshole

Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2007 6:10 pm
Posts: 13322
Location: United States

Posted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 12:25 pm

Only shit I like out of all this is Sepultura: Arise and Beneath the Remains. The rest can be disposed of.

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true_death
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Sep 26, 2013 6:47 pm
Posts: 2390

Posted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 12:54 pm

I am a fan of the Sepultura albums "The Mediator Between the Head and the Hands Must Be the Heart", "Beneath the Remains", and "Arise". I have listened to those other two but it's not really my style I guess. It's hard for me to respect Max because I see him as the Brazilian version of Robb Flynn...when thrash was "in" he did that, when thrash was "out" he changed styles, then went into nu metal and now is trying to bury all that (without outright condemning it) through an ill-conceived return to form. It might be "good music" but I am cautious to accept it's sincerity. I respect Andreas Kisser more because, even if they have released some mediocre-to-terrible music over the years, they have been extremely resilient and braved through the extreme amount of apathy and hatred they receive these days from the metal scene without batting an eyelash. Plus, the new album fuckin' rules!

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LeMiserable
Milhouse van Houten

Joined: Sun Dec 08, 2013 7:42 am
Posts: 567
Location: Netherlands

Posted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 12:59 pm

I'd say Sepultura have rocked pretty much since Roorback, Kairos might be an exception but even that album isn't all too bad...

What you say about Cavalera is kinda true, he tried to change to more popular genres when thrash metal started to fade, but when he realised he didn't have any success with that too, he moved to thrash metal again, as evidenced by Dark Ages and practically everything following that, where Enslaved is probably Soulfly's best album ever...

And CC is just awesome, I'm looking forward to hearing some of their new grindcore material, even though I don't like grindcore at all...

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tomcat_ha about me bashing BastardHead's musical taste wrote:

i would normally use the saying pot calling the kettle black but in your case its more like a black hole calling a kettle black.

Last edited by LeMiserable on Sun Dec 08, 2013 1:02 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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6Xul66
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Nov 12, 2009 4:48 pm
Posts: 445

Posted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 1:00 pm

Early Sepultura albums 'Morbid Visions' - 'Arise' will always hold a special place with me, fantastic albums. I used to be a fan of Soulfly back in the day but I can only really listen to 'Prophecy' & 'Dark Ages' these days with everything else being extremely boring. As for CC, I'm not too fussed when it comes to them. 'Inflikted' was an OK CD with some good riffs knocking around, and what I heard of the 2nd disc by them, again the songs were pretty boring. I am intrigued to see how the Killer Be Killed material will turn out though.

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LeMiserable
Milhouse van Houten

Joined: Sun Dec 08, 2013 7:42 am
Posts: 567
Location: Netherlands

Posted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 1:21 pm

Quote:

TS, you're not wrong at all. I don't even remotely agree with you whatsoever, but you're not wrong. Opinions from fan to fan have no right or wrong, if it works for you, it's right for you. I happen to like every album after Arise, and before Arise for that matter. As for no killer songs (monstrous riffs, etc), Ostia, Choke, Reza, Hatred Aside, One Man Army, Uma Cura, and pretty much 99.9% of Chaos A.D. and Roots were badass, strong songs. I like A-Lex as well, but haven't listened to it enough in depth to give a critique. Personally, this band is THE most needlessly shit on band in all of metal, but to each their own, etc. Everyone kind of likes to think of BTR and Arise as their only albums just because of thrash riffing and production, which is cool....but it's not the be all end all of the band. Also, the thing with Derrick....I REALLY do not understand why so many people shit on this dude, he's fucking awesome live and he sounds badass. When people harp on about his "hardcore" vocals, I really have to ask how much hardcore this afficianados have been listening to....I think he has a unique sounding voice and is fine for Sepultura. People also prop up Max like he's a god.....the dude uses the same catch phrases almost every single album, and yet still is considered better for his earlier work. Not that I dislike Max's post-Sep work at all, I do for the most part, but it's all very interesting, really.

This was written by SHUTUPANDDIE well over 3 years ago, and tbh I fully agree with him, ESPECIALLY the Max part, I like Max as a musician, but what really annoyed me on let's say Inflikted is that he says "Inflikted" on like 5-8 songs on the entire album, not really original...

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tomcat_ha about me bashing BastardHead's musical taste wrote:

i would normally use the saying pot calling the kettle black but in your case its more like a black hole calling a kettle black.

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fallot
I'm not sexist, I have binders full of women friends!

Joined: Thu Oct 24, 2013 5:46 pm
Posts: 92

Posted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 2:01 pm

A short history of Sepultura, by fallot:

Morbid Visions/Bestial Devastation: Intense, original, legendary.
Schizophrenia: Transition to a refined style, sounds great but doesnt come together unfortunately, a slight hiccup with great parts.
Beneath the Remains: It comes together, great album.
Arise: Still great but becoming normed.
****************************************************
Chaos A.D.: Large shit taken on all of the above
Roots: Shit continues, becomes bloody/cancerous, all hope dies, huge influx of connoisseurs of bloody shit.

Soulfly: Trash nu-metal band turning into mediocre extreme metal with all the spirit gone (i.e. nu-metal at heart). Attracts some Roots fans.
Cavalera Conspiracy: Never heard it, never want to.

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shouvince
Veteran

Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2005 9:11 am
Posts: 3226

Posted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 2:28 pm

Sepultura: I first listened to 'Roots' coz it seemed to be the flavor of the week back then. "Whoa, tribal music with death metal" was what I used to hear from some people but I never bought into it. I honestly loved Chaos AD when I got it. Maybe coz some of those songs were easy to play on guitar. But all said and done, I don't listen to Sepultura's post-Arise era anymore. Beneath the Remains is one of my all time favorite death/thrash albums.

Soulfly: I picked up '3' not knowing what Soulfly sounded like. I didn't like it too much even though I had a nu-metal phase going on back then. Eventually, I just hated all that crap and felt Max was dumbing down the music way too much.

Cavalera Conspiracy: I think I have heard few songs online but I've never really bothered beyond that.

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somefella
Veteran

Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 11:57 pm
Posts: 3134
Location: Singapore

Posted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 2:51 pm

Soulfly, meh. Cavalera Conspiracy I've listened to a few songs here and there and it's alright.

As for Sepultura, while I love the early stuff and venerate Beneath The Remains alongside Darkness Descends and Pleasure To Kill, Chaos AD for me is the best Sepultura album. This is where they truly generated their own identity, the tribal drums and interludes alongside the lyrics and a riffing style that generated mosh pits and headbanging from audiences easily but yet didn't lose any character by trying to be faster than the next thrash band. The guitar progressions were more well-thought out and memorable, the playing was controlled and professional and yet managing to be aggressive without having to go over the top. Better crafted grooves than anything Pantera ever put out, their best production ever, and just all around great songs and playing. Sure it's not as breakneck warpspeed fast like the earlier stuff, but it didn't have to be, nor was it trying to be. It was about pounding, pummeling groove. Bolt Thrower's latter day material aren't as frantic as Realm Of Chaos but they grind the tracks and rumble over the opposition, just like Chaos A.D.

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BasqueStorm
The Wettest Blanket

Joined: Wed May 26, 2010 2:21 pm
Posts: 4793
Location: Turks and Caicos Islands

Posted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 4:13 pm

TheDefiniteArticle wrote:

I dislike everything done by the three apart from Sepultura up to 'Arise', and even then, BtR and Arise itself are considerably weaker than the other stuff.

+1. Best one is (1987) Sepultura - Schizophrenia for me.

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Yayattasa
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2012 7:49 am
Posts: 858

Posted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 4:26 pm

Like everything by Sepultura and almost everything by Cavaleras Conspiracy, never listened to Soulfly, though.

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SkullFracturingNightmare
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Nov 14, 2013 7:20 pm
Posts: 1190
Location: United States

Posted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 7:41 pm

I like all of the Max-era Sepultura albums (well, only a couple songs on Roots). Cavalera Conspiracy isn't too bad. It's about the closest thing we're gonna get to old Sepultura again.

Soulfly, I kinda enjoy their later material (Dark Ages and beyond). Not so crazy about their nu-metal stuff. The only songs I like off their earlier stuff are the Soulfly instrumentals. Those are nice.

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ThrashingTheRedemer
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Mar 02, 2008 1:50 am
Posts: 204

Posted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 7:43 pm

The wheels fell off when Max got dreads

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Turner
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Aug 23, 2002 2:04 am
Posts: 2247
Location: Australia

Posted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 8:01 pm

sepultura up to roots is amazing, and they basically only churned out good until that album. plus, chaos AD is one of the best albums of all time. soulfly's last few albums have been above-par, but i haven't heard the newest one yet (is it out yet?). cavalera conspiracy's first album was pretty top-notch, but the second bored me.

non-max sepultura.... i heard against when it came out, and it was just crap. i put their latest album on to write this post... and it's an improvement, but nstill ot my style at all. kisser simply doesn't write in a style that i enjoy.

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693
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2009 3:55 am
Posts: 693

Posted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 8:07 pm

I enjoy all the Sepultura stuff with Max, not the two first albums. And I enjoy the first CC album, which is pretty damn good. It's not some really thought out, advanced modern crap without any emotions. It's old school straight forward primitiveness! Haven't heard the second album by them or anything by soulfly!

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Huldrelok
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2009 10:01 pm
Posts: 310
Location: United States

Posted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 8:13 pm

ThrashingTheRedemer wrote:

The wheels fell off when Max got dreads

When was this? Im not a huge Sepultura fan (although much respect to their first few albums to Arise), but he definitely lost it sometime in the 90s. As for Soulfly and CC I dont see why anyone interested in the oldschool style would be interested in any of that material.

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volutetheswarth
Our Lady of Perpetual Butthurt

Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2011 8:37 pm
Posts: 3489
Location: Australia

Posted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 8:15 pm

All three release mediocre albums.

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ThrashingTheRedemer
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Mar 02, 2008 1:50 am
Posts: 204

Posted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 8:23 pm

Huldrelok wrote:

ThrashingTheRedemer wrote:

The wheels fell off when Max got dreads

Pretty much around the time you just mention - Chaos AD / Roots period.

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Diamhea
Eats and Spits Corpses

Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2007 7:46 pm
Posts: 9275
Location: At the Heat of Winter

Posted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 8:30 pm

I prefer Arise to Beneath the Remains, personally.

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Zerberus
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2008 4:29 pm
Posts: 2360
Location: Denmark

Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 3:44 am

I love Cavalera-era Sepultura. All of those albums, really. I never cared much for Derrick Green, as I can't stand those weird barks of vocals he does. He has a lot of charisma in a live setting, but I dislike his vocals and the stuff they wrote following Max's departure has, in my opinion, been waaay weaker.

I've only ever listened to a couple of Soulfly albums and they didn't do anything for me, so I guess it's not really me. Cavalera Conspiracy I never cared for.

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Secular Prayer
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Oct 29, 2013 1:28 pm
Posts: 91
Location: United States

Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 11:13 am

Never heard anything from Soulfly and Cavalera Conspiracy that interested me. Sepultura is a band I don` t know as much about as I` d like to, with Chaos A.D. being the only record I own from them. I` ve heard a few songs from the new record that were cool, but I` m not sure if I` m interested enough to pick it up.

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Riffs
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2012 1:48 am
Posts: 1077
Location: Montréal, Québec

Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 12:19 pm

Cavalera-era Sepultura was cool. It was an interesting mix of paying tribute to what has been done before while adding their own touch to it. Roots was less interesting to me but as some sort of experiment, it had its moments I guess.

After the split, things got worse. Soulfly and Cavalera Conspiracy are not bands I enjoy much. There are a few songs where I can headbang a little but most of it is groovy, noisy and cliché. A few tolerable moments but overall, not my kind of metal.

I guess the greatest compliment I can give to these bands is that if I was forced to attend a nu-school concert, I would think of these bands and Machine Head first. They're pretty much the only tolerable nu-school metal bands for me.

Green-era Sepultura is shit.

I would be interested in a Sepultura reunion but based on what these guys have released since the split, I wouldn't get my hopes too high for a return to form.

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Oddeye
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Jun 28, 2009 12:24 pm
Posts: 2283
Location: Sweden

Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 12:55 pm

I really like all Sepultura albums with Max, even Roots. The rest of the albums have been so so but I thought both Kairos and the latest one was pretty damn good. Derrick Greens vocals has really improved as well as the production.

Soulfly is pretty hit and miss. I used to like the early albums when I was a teenager but these days it's only the albums after Prophecy that works for me (altough I listen to the debut sometimes just to be nostalgic). The last Soulfly album was pretty horrid though.

The first Cavalera Conspiracy album is great while Blunt Force Trauma is a bit more mediocre. It has some great songs but also some really dull ones.

All in all I think Max Cavalera gets way too much shit. He's a pretty old dude and I think it's great that hes still wants to play metal.

However I think it's pretty clear that Andreas Kisser and Max Cavalera writes better songs together than when they are apart.

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Bishop_Drugsalot
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2012 10:42 am
Posts: 844
Location: Purgatory

Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 1:34 pm

Schizophrenia, one of the best thrash-albums ever.
Beneath and Arise on occasional listening.
Rest, trade for different pressings of Schizophrenia.
E: Apart from Morbid Visions, which is fun.

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