A lot of death metal seems to bury the bass guitar deep in the mix, and some really seems to make a point of keeping it as discernible as every other instrument. The band, the producer, and the mixer/engineer I guess all have a choice in this. I suppose obviously some bands don't have the monetary means to do everything they want in the studio, and have to make do with what they have. And other bands have everything at their disposal and still fuck it up.
Is bass guitar important to you as a death metal listener? Do you prefer it totally audible and clear to make out all the notes? Or is a distorted, heavy, murky thick sound more important to you? What bands can you barely hear the bass on but the music still rules? Or what bands have the bass as equal or as leader but it doesn't work musically. Obviously it depends on the band and what they're trying to achieve with the overall sound. Anyone have some outstanding winners or total failures?

I don't think the particular route matters as much as how bands execute it. Take Entombed's Left Hand Path, the bass is a huge part of the sound but not particularly independent when compared to something like, say, Beyond Creation's The Aura where the bass pretty much does its own thing. I really like the bass work that Atheist have used throughout the years. While it is a really good mix between the two approaches of adding to the tone versus being independent, it is way more important to me that the nice pop to the sound works great for the band's particular style.

A lot of the time when people say they can barely hear the bass, they are really hearing the bass but subsuming it into the guitar. The human ear is more responsive to the frequencies guitars make which is why guitar is more often used as a solo instrument than bass. Same for say tuba versus the sax or double bass versus the violin.

I'm a huge fan of blower bass. Just totally overblown and dominating something like this band:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejSAnjs3KNo

also love it when it's pronounced and clear cutting through and doing some very interesting things as well like:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4g6cwlTIhM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-wnwOVSqW4

Now it's not exactly the most important to me. But I def enjoy hearing it in either context

I'm a big fan of good production that suits the music - duh - and that includes the audibility of each instrument to some degree. If the bass is clear and cuts through or if it helps build a wall of sound with everything else depends on the music. What I've found however is that most people who complain that the bass isn't audible usually doesn't know what a bass sounds like.

Quite often when I read review and the reviewer complains about a lack of bass I listen to the album and the bass is right there in the mix. Not buried deep below everything else. I can't remember where but a reviewer said this of Mastodons Leviatahan. He/she claimed that the bass was barely audible while it in actuality is a huge part of that albums sound. The same happens regularly with more pure death meal releases as well. Most often the bass is at least audible in the mix. Unless it takes a huge part in the sound, as on Bolt Throwers Those Once Loyal record, one reason people don't notice it is that it is to often used as a mimic of the guitar riff. A real bass player usually likes to be the glue between drums and guitars with some added flare. Many however seem to be wannabe guitar players and simply keep to playing the guitar riff once octave down and without the chords.

That bass on Autopsy's Severed Survival

In 95% of all cases, the rhythm guitar is the biggest part of the death metal sound, followed closely by the drumming and vocals. The rest normally have to take a slight backseat, how much would depend on context. Look at Cannibal Corpse, Alex Webster is a phenomenal player but his sound still occupies the background compared to the factors I mentioned early. It sticks out occasionally still because of a good tone choice and showy playing.

Not really a bass guitar fan, but as far as death metal goes, I enjoy Deicide and Cannibal Corpse, where it's in the background.

Outstanding winners? How about Steve Cloutier on the album Obscura (sample)? Nearly as much presence as the guitars, clean but played in a very chunky and punchy style, and the compositions of course...

Otherwise I'm not too picky, it's cool sometimes when you can discern every note but sometimes it just works better as a thick, fuzzy, monstrous layer in the background.

Same here! But more in the style that Mortician (or Ride for Revenge) do it. Perfect example would be World Domination on the House by the Cemetery EP. I won't link it from youtube because I'm sure it's not very audible on it, hahah. Total flamethrower style fuzz.

Besides that I like when the bass is audible and when the bass player does interesting things, 95% of death metal albums wouldn't sound as half as heavy if the bass wasn't there. The fact that it blends with the guitar doesn't mean it's not a part of the sound. See for example Bloodbath's NMF. The guitars alone are rather thin but the bass is massive, providing all the balls the album has. Ask Sneap, Bogren or Nordstrom about the importance of the bass

My opinion on death metal bass guitar is that there are too many guitarists playing rhythm guitar on a bass and not enough bassists.

This guy knows.

Yes this is it really. Then there is a difficulty in regards to sonic space but nothing that is rocket science or anything. Bass in metal is to often played by someone really wanting to play rhythm guitar. Simple as that when it comes to bass in metal not being all that interesting.

Nailed it.

I don't mind inaudible bass, but audible bass is always better with no exceptions. All of my favourite albums (in any genre) have audible bass.

I tend to agree with the last few posts.
Overall, the guitar-based music that I like the most has discernible bass lines ... and it is no different when specifically regarding dm.

I'm not sure I understand the "too many bass players just play the guitar part" thing that everybody keeps repeating. When I play bass, I want to play the damn riffs, not some silly arpeggio or chord progression or slapping thing. This is death metal, not funk or dad rock or whatever. 99% of the time the guitar and drums are hitting the same rhythm so there isn't really a separate "bassline" to follow.

If there's a simple guitar part where the drums are doing something interesting then I'll throw in some groovy stuff and fills.. but that's only a few seconds per song.

My "perfect" bass sound (and that applies for most metal genres, not only death) is that one easily noticeable, where you can actually discern what is being played, as long as it does not overshadow the guitars. I can stand and like albums where the bass is it the background, but it has to fulfil the requirement of supporting the guitars and provide heaviness.

I don´t listen to death metal (or then again, metal in general) because of bass in particular, but it´s a shame when you know the bassist is really good and can´t hear what is being played (someone said Alex Webster... that´s a fine example).

As long as the bass guitar sound can kill a man, its good.

I myself prefer a real bass heavy mix, especially for death metal. Disma - Towards the Megalith and Suffocation - Effigy of the Forgotten are two good examples of what I like in death metal, although Suffocation just have their guitars real bass-y sounding. When the bass is real bass heavy, it reminds me of being at a live show and that's why I think I enjoy the sound of a live mix. Although when I say bass heavy, I mean within reasonable standards.

Unique, audible basslines are a hell of a lot more interesting to me than just some low-rumbly thing that follows the rhythm guitar.

Unique, audible basslines don't work many contexts in death metal. You have to think of the song as a whole and if the bass goes off the rails too much, the guitars and drums won't sound very tight or powerful. It may be interesting to listen to the instruments as individual components but the song itself loses impact. The best bassists know when to duplicate the riff, when to play something else over it, when to groove with the drums, when to play in halftime, and when to throw a fill in. Alex Webster, for all his spastic and out of this world chops, never overplays in Cannibal Corpse to his immense credit. Even Steve Digorgio on Iced Earth's Horror Show puts on one of the most disciplined performances of his career, because otherwise it wouldn't fit, unlike his own stuff in Sadus.

Duplicating the guitar riffs is often the best thing for the bass to do in death metal. Not fancy or flashy but it lends power to the whole song, which is more important than anything else.

Sure, shoehorning in crazy bass lines in your average death metal song probably won't work out too well, but that doesn't negate my preference.

You can prefer whatever you like. I'm just informing you that the reason you don't hear it much in death metal is because most competent bassists realise that it's a dumb thing to do and therefore don't do it very much.

Yea, deviating away from the rhythm guitars is more of a melodic preference of mine. Like if I'm listening to melodeath, prog, black, or even some power metal (others not listed, beer hindering memory), I would like for the bass to compliment the guitars, not follow them. Hypocrisy - Roswell 47 is an awesome example of a good bassline (chorus). But for something as percussive as most original death metal, the bass is pretty much required to follow the guitars or the mix becomes a jumbled piece of shit. Morbid Angel got lucky on God of Emptiness

I'm sorry I didn't realize that your opinions were fact. I'll be more careful next time.

Unfortunately for you that isn't my opinion, it IS a fact. In a genre which is rhythm-guitar dominant, is is oft the best option to add to that heaviness by duplicating the riffing with the bass. See Bloodbath's Nightmares Made Flesh as mentioned earlier for one of the easiest examples to understand.

You can of course go ahead and prefer death metal with the bassist adding flowers and flair to every bar, no one's stopping you. I'm just saying you don't see that often because it isn't a particularly smart thing to do in death metal. In fact for certain modern CC songs, Alex Webster doesn't even duplicate the guitar riff but plays it in half-time because he worries about not being able to match Pat O'Brien's picking.

EDIT: To add on to a point that was earlier raised, I also tend to notice that quite a few albums which I see are criticised for having inaudible bass actually have perfectly audible bass. Just because it's not doing a tapping solo doesn't mean it's not there.

Is that what a bass line is to you? Addition of flowers and flair? You seriously need to expand on your music listening.

Bah, I can't agree with this train of thought when it comes to death metal. Death metal just isn't the place for restraint. Death metal has plenty of decent bassists that are capable of doing a significant amount more than than simply back the guitars. It might even come to down preference, but I much prefer my bassists to do more than back the guitars, because I think it's perfectly possible to do so without detracting from the music's power. Defeated Sanity, in my opinion, is one of the most powerful sounding death metal bands bar none. CC doesn't even come close in the "heaviness" department, yet in DS the bass guitar is used properly by adding grooves, accenting riffs with leads, countering the rhythm guitar, and occasionally taking charge of the music altogether. It's a unique instrument with a unique sound. It adds so much to the music when it's doing more than just backing the guitars, including additional impact (rather than less).

Sure, adding prominence to the bass guitar might change a band's sound, but personally I've always liked my death metal groovy, and nothing makes that happen more than interesting, audible basswork. Or even Pavor's case is satisfying - they fill the bass with melodic solo leads and show off. It detracts from the heaviness a bit (which isn't everyone's preference), but what that band does with a bass guitar is great fun to listen to. I feel merely backing the guitars 100% of the time with the bass seems like a stylistic choice that's picked out of pure convenience in many DM bands. I'm not sure why people insist on keeping bass work boring, it's as if they would prefer a dimension of their music to be completely missing. Maybe it's too many things going on at once that turns people away from it. Perhaps it's because people associate simplicity with power for some reason. I understand it's not applicable for the bass to do its own thing in all death metal bands, but as a whole I think the bass guitar is under utilized.

Seriously? I was just being snarky and giving you the benefit of the doubt.

No, there is no "best" option for something completely subjective. There is no "smart" way of song writing. There is no objectivity. It's all preference. Plain and simple. It goes for any genre.

Don't be ridiculous.

It depends entirely on the rest of the composition. If it's written with room for the bass to breathe, then the bassist should feel free to add to it as they please. On the other hand, if a tight, unified attack is called for, it'd be inappropriate for the bass to just go off and do its own thing. Both extremes of the equation (bass that might as well not be there because it adds no extra dimension to the sound vs. annoying, noodly bass that doesn't fit in with what the rest of the band is doing) are equally bad, but it's not a golden mean, either. Some styles call for dynamic, free-flowing basswork, others call for it to be heard more than felt.

My posts have been a response to the multiple posters saying that bass guitar in death metal too often isn't flashy enough. Don't just cherry pick a line you don't like. My basic stand is that more often than not, disciplined playing and maintaining the groove between the drums and guitars is the role of the bass. David Ellefson explains it well enough in his Rock Shop videos. Sometimes you follow the drums, sometimes the guitars, sometimes a mix of both.

Being more creative =/= being more flashy. Generally speaking, this is one of those less is more genres when it comes to bass. Of course there are exceptions, stop citing them and saying that those refute it. There's a reason why they are the exception and not the rule. While I also think the ideal situation is a bass player who knows exactly when to accent, when to throw in a fill and when to duplicate the riffs (see Ellefson again) I don't mind if all the bass does is riff along, because its obviously preferable to being overshowy.

Not a single one of us has said this. Unless your definition of "flashy bass" is sastifised when a bass line deviates from the rhythm guitar part (which would be ridiculous), I'd appreciate it if you decide to stop being so blantantly disingeous.

And it's still absurd how you are asserting your opinions on bass guitar in death metal as if they are factual and even throw in an authority figure as if that somehow gives you more credit.

What some of the proponents of the bass copying the rhythm guitar are missing is that bass lines doesn't have to be super melodic arpeggios that derail a band from having they heavy feeling in their compositions. If the drums, the guitars and the bass are all pretty much playing the same thing - which was the argument (drums and guitars play the same thing so the bass shouldn't derail that) - perhaps we should think of it as the other instrumentalists not being very creative either.

Rarely do I find the drumming for instance to be super straight and emphasizing everything the rhythm guitar does. Every really good band I know of has musicians that know their role. They know how to pull the song together but also know not to intrude on any other band members space. The rhythm guitar and the bass can absolutely play the same thing - I am not against that. However they shouldn't do so all the time. Just like the drummer shouldn't adjust to playing in the exact same feel as the rhythm guitars or reverse. I always saw the bass as the glue between a good drummer and a good guitarist. That which is in between and holds everything together - ideally. It is most often more related to the drumming than the guitar since it is more rhythm based and it is often more related to the guitar than the guitar is to the drumming as it is also a melodic instrument.

And as I said it doesn't have to be Obscura craziness that goes on with the bass. It can be strongly rhythm based like Mastodon for example. It can be the bass playing half time compared to the guitars, or playing double the speed etc. There are many ways to flavour a song. Not everyone is Steve DiGiorgio and not every song is suitable for extravagant playing. I do believe however that most songs benefit from a good original bass track that isn't just a copy of what someone else plays.

All the arguments about death metal having to have identical bass and guitar parts are really just someones weird opinion. If one is any kind of musician to speak of they know how to spice up a song without loosing whatever it is that is seen as the core of the music.