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Ilwhyan
Metel fraek

Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 1:41 pm
Posts: 6164
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 5:28 am 
 

Littlewolf wrote:
Indeed. But let us, for a moment, imagine they cease using corpsepaint and the usual iconography. It just wouln't be the same, would it?

Those have never been things I've valued overmuch. Being genuine comes first, and of course, the music is the highest priority.
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elf48687789
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2009 2:03 pm
Posts: 1593
PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 11:26 am 
 

Cthulhu_Fhtagn wrote:
thrashmaniac87 wrote:


How is it laughable? You make it sound like something has happened that would make non-believers Christian. Christianity is the still the main cause of homophobia, sexism and racism. (this is usually where internet metal heads call me a "PC fagget") Many of them are anti-sex, anti-condom, anti-abortion, anti-science etc. I do not find these to be laughing matters.


How is Christianity the cause of racism? To my knowledge, there were no whites (or blacks, asians, hispanics, etc) in the bible, just middle-eastern people and Jews. As for Christians being "anti-science" that is just for macro-evolution. Where did you get those ideas?
Some American Protestant churches are pretty racist.

And also, I've been listening to the news lately, there are a lot of anti-gay laws now in Africa, mostly under the influence of Christianity (sometimes Islam), gay-rights leaders getting killed and so on. Same in Russia. Ironically the Communists did the same and they were supposedly atheists.

I don't think it's the religions which are really to blame, but the fundamentalists, who are a bunch of cretins.

As to anti-religious metal, yeah, most of it gets pretty old, I mainly hear it thrash songs (some newer ones too), it usually doesn't even get deep enough to even mention pedophilia, it's usually just "fuck religion, fuck, fuck fuck". I think intelligent texts would work much better than trying to shock.

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schizoid
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2004 8:35 am
Posts: 434
Location: New Zealand
PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 11:41 am 
 

elf48687789 wrote:


As to anti-religious metal, yeah, most of it gets pretty old, I mainly hear it thrash songs (some newer ones too), it usually doesn't even get deep enough to even mention pedophilia, it's usually just "fuck religion, fuck, fuck fuck". I think intelligent texts would work much better than trying to shock.


You need to check out Atheist's latest then, if you haven't already. Leave it to the old masters to get it right.

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Atropus
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2013 3:02 pm
Posts: 679
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 2:24 pm 
 

I'm going to be slightly stereotypical and say in the case of American bands like Judas Iscariot, Havohej, Grand Belial's Key, Nunslaughter, Deicide, etc. etc. etc. it could also have a great deal to do with American culture.

There are exceptions, of course, such as Michael Ford of Black Funeral, or Proscriptor of Absu.

However, for the most part, I think a group of young metalheads from, say, rural Arizona would have a hard time trying to relate to Nordic mythology, Germanic Paganism, or other exotic occult themes, and probably just feel silly trying to write about the same themes as Norwegian bands like Burzum or Emperor.
However, for those who live in the Bible Belt, Christian fanaticism and it's influence in American politics and society is much more real to them, and they have much more to say concerning that, as opposed to the exotic mythological fantasy world most European artists tend to live in.

Most musicians are inspired by their environment, after all.

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Metalmeistermms
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 3:05 pm
Posts: 114
Location: The Netherlands
PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 2:45 pm 
 

I think I fall into the category of the "elder" and am not bored by anti-religion stuff and also understand it's still widely used. I have two main reasons

First: Religion is still a huge factor in our society. As I grow older and have kids these days, I see religion more and more as an extremely dangerous and evil human condition. Furthermore, the idiocy displayed by representatives from Christianity, Islam or Judaism on a daily basis is beyond belief (no pun intended). So reason enough inspiration for anti-religion lyrics.

Second: I do not think metal in general is intended to really solve the religion-problem, and I certainly don't look at it at that way. Unintelligent or repeated lyrics don't bother me really cause I don't expect them to be intelligent or "useful" in a bigger sense. For me metal is a personal (individualistic) escape, place for comfort, place to vent different types of emotions; not a vehicle to change the world (not in the way someone like Pat Condell is trying......).

P.s. Satanic lyrics is not the same as anti-religion to me. Satan as a subject is very traditional in metal (as old as Sabbath) and keeps just as good a subject as war / death or other often covered subjects. Nothing wrong with that.
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t1337Dude
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Joined: Sat May 26, 2007 5:20 am
Posts: 620
PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 5:00 am 
 

If you live in the USA and can't see the impact of religion in society, then you're a fucking moron. The basis of USA society still operates on Christian concepts and morals.

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FasterDisaster
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Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 2:08 pm
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 6:12 am 
 

I just hate anything that's on the nose. State what you mean, sure, but at least put some creativity into the delivery instead of just throwing out the first lines/verses that comes to mind. Figure out a more interesting way to put forth whatever ideals are in your head at the time. Crafting awesome lyrics is just a another piece of the puzzle.
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joncheetham88
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2008 10:41 pm
Posts: 349
Location: Singapore
PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 8:11 am 
 

Heh heh, well that escalated quickly! Anyway, living in different places around the world I grew to loathe monotheism anew. Living in Singapore I witnessed the controlling impact of evangelical Christian megachurches which demand huge tithes and donations from their membership, effectively sapping all the pocket money and wages most ethnic Chinese kids there (the main target audience) earn and encouraging them to avoid their Buddhist or Atheist families/ friends (directly deriving from Jesus' exhortations to same in the New Testament). You can now read in the Straits Times about how the head pastor of City Harvest Church was using the money these kids were giving to fund his wife's abortive pop career in the USA, the aptly Sun Ho. They are now in court for that and among other things, the fact that this pastor Kong Hee's book was largely ripped off from someone else's sermon. A grotesque organisation.

Then you have countries like Thailand where there are plenty of people who love listening to anti-Christian metal like the excellent Zygoatsis and Surrender of Divinity, but who still turn Buddhism into a nationalist religion and make zealous, racist comments about Cambodians making claim to Thai temples built on their land. I saw an incredibly harsh and bigoted attack on Cambodia by the guitarist of a band called Savage Deity who I soon gave a piece of my mind and then broke off contact with - fortunately it is no loss as there are plenty of bands doing what they do, better.

Not to mention I got to learn a lot more about Islam, a huge religion in Southeast Asia - now in Muslim countries there is still the same level of utter brainwashing, submission and decrepit, foul acts committed in the name of a god that there was in Christianity in the dark ages. Honour killings, wives daily raped and beaten. Of course you always have to leave the caveat, not ALL are like this, no, of course not. Plenty of people who follow this religion don't follow the parts that preach sexism, racism and violence and lead normal, modern lives, just like many Christians ignore the parts of the Bible that are too incompatible with a functioning lifestyle (cognitive dissonance is a marvelous thing). Just to stave off some of the screeching, apologist chest-beating that usually erupts after someone says the same things they say about Islam that everyone has already said about Christianity, without any complaints, naturally.

However whatever nice thing Mohammad may have had to say, he was also a racist, a misogynist and a paedophile, but because of the lines in al-Quran which forbid Islam from being criticized which have for some reason been adopted even outside the faith, this religion is constantly, angrily and loudly defended by non-Muslims all over the world who confuse the concept of being a muslim with being from the Middle East or being Asian - stereotyping these people themselves! They think anti-Muslim means racist, because of this irritating, invented term "Islamophobia" (is there any Buddhophobia or Christophobia? No because that would sound fucking ridiculous wouldn't it...). It is incredibly reductive. There are people of all ethnic backgrounds following all faiths - there are Iranian atheists, and Chinese muslims. I happen to have a couple of good Malay/ Indonesian friends who feel the same way about this faith I do, and have been in contact with some killer Middle Eastern bands intent on spreading the word against tyranny, oppression and the mind-forged manacles.

So yeah, monotheism is still a great, disgusting and bloated problem creating anti-intellectualism and oppression across the world, and I in the modern day have every reason to hate it and to enjoy bands that align more or less with what I think (although I prefer the concepts of those that approach religion in an innovative way such as Ascension, or who have something new and interesting to say or a new take like the Monolith Deathcult, and will agree that the whole "goats! bullet belts! church burning! bluargh!" schtick can get old and smelly sometimes).

I am sure I will cease to feel so strongly about it in future as age and apathy advance, especially since I am trying right now to get back to live in the Czech Republic which is blessedly, beautifully atheist.
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Exigence
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Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2005 2:42 pm
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Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 8:31 am 
 

It's not a question of religion still making an impact on society. Of course that is prevalent everywhere on this planet. But a music listener isn't only interested in socially relevant topics. So if you've been listening to metal for 20 years, the question I posed is whether or not a 'fatigue' set in of constantly being bludgeoned by metal's anti-religion rhetoric over and over.

Yes, there are ways to approach it from new directions. Many don't, however.

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joncheetham88
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Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2008 10:41 pm
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Location: Singapore
PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 9:06 am 
 

Well then I guess what I was saying is that to me, surrounded by religious bigots almost constantly over the last few years, has meant that religion has remained one of my "buttons". So anti-religious metal is still pertinent to me. In Asia I was aware of it all the time, all around me, and my psyche therefore spent a lot of time subconsciously and consciously rejecting and disavowing it.

For you, however, having less exposure to it (although it is clear you are not ignorant of the scope of the problem), it has lost some relevance and you are free to spend time thinking about other things, possibly reflected in your listening habits (I am only making assumptions about you here so, apologies). Perhaps it is something to do with how human habits and interests are formed.

And yeah in addition to that, I listen to all sorts of stuff in terms of concept. Best album of the year for me is the Caladan Brood LP, and the fact that the lyrics derive from my favourite author is just gravy. First and foremost I'm about the actual sound - so Satan's Host to me is primarily Conklin's voice, some classy-ass guitars and terrific drumming. It could be about almost anything, I would still listen. I mean I listen the shit out of Jag Panzer and that's about all sorts of random stuff.
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deicidefan
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Joined: Wed Sep 23, 2009 12:54 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 9:47 am 
 

Deicide has some of the best lyrics in any genre of music.
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Clowndoe
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Joined: Mon May 21, 2012 10:24 pm
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Location: Canada
PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 10:06 am 
 

I may not be "older people" but I'm not bothered by anti-religion lyrics. I never thought that was particularly cool or extreme, it's just another theme that I don't take seriously. Honestly there aren't a lot of things you can talk about in metal that I don't find somewhat tacky.

What I do find strange are the anti-Christian pagan guys. I thought you were supposed to pick a religion you thought was real, not the one that made you feel good because that's what the ancestors you like believed in.

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Exigence
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Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2005 2:42 pm
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Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 11:11 am 
 

That's another goofy bit of paradox that some metal music induces. You fight against religion and other social norms - but a lot of the lyrics preach brotherhood, loyalty to a king/satan/authority figure, dying for a belief, etc. That's all running alongside free will, live for the day, slave to no one....kinda funny.

Like any military-oriented music is going to be about taking orders. But then the next band is "fuck the law!"

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Ilwhyan
Metel fraek

Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 1:41 pm
Posts: 6164
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 1:31 pm 
 

Exigence wrote:
That's another goofy bit of paradox that some metal music induces. You fight against religion and other social norms - but a lot of the lyrics preach brotherhood, loyalty to a king/satan/authority figure, dying for a belief, etc. That's all running alongside free will, live for the day, slave to no one....kinda funny.

Like any military-oriented music is going to be about taking orders. But then the next band is "fuck the law!"

You might as well argue that metal's lyrical themes are paradoxal, since they're about individualism and free thought, but a lot of the lyrics are fascist or outright nazi.

Opposition of religion in metal doesn't necessarily come from rejecting social norms. Why would religion be such a popular target of debunking these norms? It has more to do with a world-view where individuals aren't controlled by something they can't see and that doesn't visibly affect their lives, like the supposed god. Religious people allow their religion to influence their lives without proof of any of the rewards or punishments for the actions that they do or neglect to do for the sake of their beliefs. Furthermore, christianity especially is based on spreading these religious rules, which intrudes upon the individuality that metal often propagates. It's not merely a matter of social norms being broken: in the worldview that much metal projects, religion must be removed from social norms. You could say metal is about re-defining social norms, rather than categorically rejecting them.
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cultofkraken
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Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2005 1:18 am
Posts: 1211
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 2:19 pm 
 

Clowndoe wrote:
What I do find strange are the anti-Christian pagan guys. I thought you were supposed to pick a religion you thought was real, not the one that made you feel good because that's what the ancestors you like believed in.


This is an incredibly silly statement. As if you know every reason why someone chooses a Pagan religion rather than just some sort of assumption you have declared as a reason, and what form of Paganism are you even referring to? What is real? Lots of Shamanistic Paganism deals with the worship of the earth and it's relationship to us, what is not "real" about that? What about the Jungian archetypes we see in Northern Paganism? there are inherent qualities in Paganism that one can ascribe to without believing in a bunch of deities.

Anyways I am so entrenched in my own beliefs and I have become so familiar with all anti-christian materials that its just the norm, for me to get tired of it it would have to bother me. Sometimes I get bored of the same old same old and need to mix it up, but the new Inquisition will have me back in a furious way. I do feel quite apathetic towards christianity nowadays, it has so little to do with my life that I pay it no heed but believe me whenever it gets poked in my nose I react swiftly and with as much vehemence as I always have.
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Atropus
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Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2013 3:02 pm
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Location: Canada
PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 2:42 pm 
 

t1337Dude wrote:
If you live in the USA and can't see the impact of religion in society, then you're a fucking moron. The basis of USA society still operates on Christian concepts and morals.


Which is why Jesse Ventura, a devout atheist, will never be able to run for presidency.

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droneriot
RETIRED

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Location: Germany
PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 2:44 pm 
 

If any pro-wrestler should run for president it should either be Stone Cold Steve Austin or the Undertaker.
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AppleQueso
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Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2009 11:02 am
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Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 2:51 pm 
 

Atropus wrote:
t1337Dude wrote:
If you live in the USA and can't see the impact of religion in society, then you're a fucking moron. The basis of USA society still operates on Christian concepts and morals.


Which is why Jesse Ventura, a devout atheist, will never be able to run for presidency.


There's nothing stopping him from running for president (whether he'd win is a different story), however there are several states that actually forbid atheists from holding public office.

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Atropus
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Location: Canada
PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 3:28 pm 
 

....and I suppose this is definitely where the significance of religion in American culture comes into play.

Watain themselves said in an interview how they actually like playing to American audiences more than Europeans. In liberal Europe, it's like "Satanic black metal? Whoop de fucking doo!!", while in America, there's still a very strong need for rebellion, as the fans there feel there's much more to break away from.

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droneriot
RETIRED

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 3:32 pm 
 

Which should prove once and for all that Watain belong on one level with Marilyn Manson, except that Manson's music is better.
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Clowndoe
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Joined: Mon May 21, 2012 10:24 pm
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Location: Canada
PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 3:38 pm 
 

cultofkraken wrote:
This is an incredibly silly statement. As if you know every reason why someone chooses a Pagan religion rather than just some sort of assumption you have declared as a reason, and what form of Paganism are you even referring to?


You're right I don't know. I actually kind of regret writing that considering I pulled it out of my ass. It's just a feeling I get from people like Varg Vikernes are "pagans" just because they don't like Christians and they see themselves as aryan so they'll pick the aryan religion because that's the proper thing to do. I mean with Christians for example they get drilled into their heads from their parents and church that God has to be real to makes sense of all sorts of stuff. That's all I meant.

droneriot wrote:
If any pro-wrestler should run for president it should either be Stone Cold Steve Austin or the Undertaker.


No, it should be Shawn Michaels. He did a tag-team match with God on his side.

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RainbowPrius19
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Joined: Thu Jul 04, 2013 4:10 pm
Posts: 76
PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 3:54 pm 
 

I am Catholic but for me the anti-religous aspect of metal does not bother me at all. The only thing is I get bored with it after a while (that is the same thing with Satanic themes music). I also do not see how some religous people can be against the Satanic music, I mean 90% of the time I am listening to black metal and 50% of the time the lyrics have to do with Paganism or Satanism but a lot of the time it is in a totaly different language and I listen to it for the music, not the message. On a side note I find it extremely stupid for, lets say a pagan to say that Christianity is totally fake and then believe in another religion. I do understand how people can be against the Church I understand the reasons that they feel this way. A lot of the rules in the Bible are things that would go against a normal person's conscience though (excluding some parts of the Old Testament).
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Littlewolf
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Joined: Tue May 01, 2007 4:18 am
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 4:52 pm 
 

Ilwhyan wrote:
Littlewolf wrote:
Indeed. But let us, for a moment, imagine they cease using corpsepaint and the usual iconography. It just wouln't be the same, would it?

Those have never been things I've valued overmuch. Being genuine comes first, and of course, the music is the highest priority.


Agreed. Music should always be of the highest priority, but I like this picturesque, macabre theater that goes with it, this twisted aesthetics so much removed from boring, everyday mainstream norms. So much I would miss it dearly if it was suddenly removed from many metal bands' iconographies. It amuses me greaty, makes me chuckle or even lol sometimes, and feel like a subversive teenager rebelling against authorities and social norms....plus blasphemy (the victimless crime) is always fun! :-P
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joncheetham88
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 5:08 pm 
 

@ Littlewolf: Blasphemy is not victimless everywhere. Though this is clearly a very Christianity/USA heavy thread, of course.
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Atropus
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 5:14 pm 
 

droneriot wrote:
Which should prove once and for all that Watain belong on one level with Marilyn Manson, except that Manson's music is better.


I thought you were the one praising blasphemous shock value bands like Nunslaughter a little while ago..... :???:

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droneriot
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 5:17 pm 
 

Atropus wrote:
shock value bands like Nunslaughter

That's another way of saying you have no idea what you're talking about.
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Littlewolf
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 5:23 pm 
 

joncheetham88 wrote:
@ Littlewolf: Blasphemy is not victimless everywhere. Though this is clearly a very Christianity/USA heavy thread, of course.


blasphemy - the crime committed if a person insults or vilifies the deities. there are no deities, therefore no crime is committed. what happens to those who blaspheme, is entirey a different story.
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Atropus
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 5:28 pm 
 

droneriot wrote:
Atropus wrote:
shock value bands like Nunslaughter

That's another way of saying you have no idea what you're talking about.


I said nothing about the musical quality of Nunslaughter, but I read CLEARLY earlier on you said you preferred the whole "pissed off" sort of simple anti-christian stuff over the "deep and thoughtful" stuff.

What other function would simple and pissed off blasphemy have other than to shock and offend??? Especially towards an audience where Christian culture has no real influence??

I think those American blasphemous types only carry weight if they can incite some sort of "hell yeah" response from their audience with their provocative statements.

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droneriot
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 5:39 pm 
 

Nunslaughter do not state their views for the benefit of those who oppose them but for the benefit of those who support them. It is a rallying cry. What Christians think of it is unimportant.

(This really should be self-evident.)
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Atropus
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 5:45 pm 
 

And how are Watain different? Aside from musical inferiority, that is.....

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RainbowPrius19
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 6:28 pm 
 

thrashmaniac87 wrote:
Christianity is the still the main cause of homophobia, sexism and racism.

What? How? I would agree if you said maybe Islam but seriously? Most of the Christians I know are the exact opposite, some are against homosexuality but they are nothing like Westboro, they just do not like it. Westboro is the vocal minority. Also where do you get this sexism and racism stuff because a lot of people make claims about this stuff but they are really just pulling it out of their ass.
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joncheetham88
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 7:14 pm 
 

RainbowPrius19 wrote:
thrashmaniac87 wrote:
Christianity is the still the main cause of homophobia, sexism and racism.

What? How? I would agree if you said maybe Islam but seriously? Most of the Christians I know are the exact opposite, some are against homosexuality but they are nothing like Westboro, they just do not like it. Westboro is the vocal minority. Also where do you get this sexism and racism stuff because a lot of people make claims about this stuff but they are really just pulling it out of their ass.


Christianity, not Christians. Islam, not Muslims. And so on. That's why it's easier to just say monotheism. Because Christianity isn't the main cause of this bigotry in the world. But monotheism has directly and indirectly caused more anti-intellectualism, hateful discrimination and social stagnation/ regression than probably anything else in history.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... scouldlose

This was a fairly decent article, especially considering it was in The Guardian, a famously sappy, liberal paper. The following hits the nail on the head:

Quote:
It's time to face up to an unpalatable fact: extremism among religious people is not an aberration. It is the logical extension of their faith. And religious moderates all too often provide cover for their fundamentalist brethren rather than meaningful opposition to them.


Just to bring this back round to the OP, this whole discussion, while tangential, shows why religion still matters for metal's listeners - it is a massive point of contention and source of frustration, something that people in all walks of life are constantly trying to understand or fight or defend in some way. So just as this thread has had heated discussion, there will always be space for a lot of metal bands to connect via intense religious lyrical ideas and full-on, scathing anti-dogma alike.
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kalervon
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Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2012 10:43 pm
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 11:18 pm 
 

thrashmaniac87 wrote:
Christianity is the still the main cause of homophobia, sexism and racism.
Just throwing this out there; maybe homophobia, sexism and racism are an important factor to the popularity of Fundamentalist Christianity. I believe that even if the influence of Christianity decreased largely, there would still be racism, homophobia, etc. But for sure, there is a feedback mechanism which is making things worse.

I was always bored by anti-religion stuff because it never appealed to me. I came to terms with religion peacefully and don't have any bad memories attached to it.

I mean, I always could relate to the songs against the hypocrisy of organised religion, songs against TV preachers (a big thing in the 80s and early 90s), just like any music against "tha powa", but not songs which attacked the mere peasants who just believed in it. I just didn't pay attention to those lyrics, and so the music was great but I had no idea what the lyrics said. Same for gore lyrics, I don't get amused or thrilled about them; they're just noise to me. I realized early on that lyrics were never really deep, even when trying to be about serious things.. However, when audible and not completely stupid, they help make me pay more attention to the songs; like certain solos or riffs do.

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Atropus
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2013 3:02 pm
Posts: 679
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 3:11 pm 
 

There's racism and homophobia everywhere, the metal community is not exempt from it.

It's got nothing to do with religion and everything to do with human nature, and the fact that human nature breeds human stupidity.

I also made a comment about Christianity having no real influence in Atheist or Buddhist-dominated countries like Japan, however I guess it's equivalent would be the right-wing Buddhist group, Sokka-Gakkai, who have a global following.

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Panflute
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2009 11:11 am
Posts: 430
PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 12:24 pm 
 

Exigence wrote:
Ok, so since I've been living on my own for 10 years now....I haven't really had to encounter that many religious people. Yeah, it's on the news and I see friends for Sunday football who just 'got out of mass' but I never think much of it. It doesn't interfere with my life or bother me in the slightest.

But then I'll see the tracklisting for [insert extreme band here]'s new album and it's like "Jeez...are you guys still pissed at this stuff?"

How many times can you say 'fuck god' and have that be your main motivating artistic factor? How can you, yourself, not get bored with that.

So to older folks, are you as burnt out as I on this continued aggression towards organized religion. To me its a dead horse and possible evidence of stunted psychological development. Is there nothing else to write about?


Yes, although it's not so much the bands that bother me (although Watain's 'we are true satanists' gimmick is pathetic and laughable and should serve as a pretext to burn everyone involved in that project on a pyre for the glory of God), but the fans.

A perfect example is this excellent 'Christians against black metal' troll page on Facebook. The guy is an expert at baiting angsty teenage kids with zealous religious statements, so everytime he posts something, about 80% of the replies consist of 'hail satan lol', 'lol fuck jesus' and '[insert internet lingo and blasphemy that loses its cool factor after you hit puberty here]'. It's really pathetic how these adolescent losers still think such statements hold any shock value in this day and age, when not being religious is definitely the cooler thing to do.

Note that I am not particularly fond about the ideological aspects of Abrahamic religions, but at the end of the day I still have more affinity with catholicism and orthodox christianity than I do with Leveyan satanism, Dawkins-flavoured atheist extremism, or whatever autistic kids are into nowadays.
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Viking_Worrier
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2012 8:37 am
Posts: 11
PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 6:30 am 
 

I find music that explores Satanism interesting in a mythical sense, and for me that in itself does not imply constant and deliberate bashing of religion. Some is to be expected given the material, but when the agenda becomes more about flaming someone else's system of beliefs than expressing your own, I tune out.

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Corpus_Chain
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2006 1:34 pm
Posts: 120
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 6:41 am 
 

Exigence wrote:
So to older folks, are you as burnt out as I on this continued aggression towards organized religion. To me its a dead horse and possible evidence of stunted psychological development. Is there nothing else to write about?

Religion is possible evidence of stunted psychological development.

There are still many, many reasons to despise religion. I can sympathise that it gets boring to hear the same subject matter in songs all the time, but bashing religion is something we need more of, not less.
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Lagartija
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Aug 02, 2006 10:27 am
Posts: 450
Location: Spain
PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 9:03 am 
 

Nope, organised religion deserves all the hate it can possibly get.
Apart from that, I don't really care that much about lyrics in general (with exceptions), so as long as the music's good I'm happy.

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Atropus
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2013 3:02 pm
Posts: 679
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 12:51 pm 
 

Viking_Worrier wrote:
I find music that explores Satanism interesting in a mythical sense, and for me that in itself does not imply constant and deliberate bashing of religion. Some is to be expected given the material, but when the agenda becomes more about flaming someone else's system of beliefs than expressing your own, I tune out.


this!!!

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mayonesa
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2013 10:10 pm
Posts: 104
PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 6:10 pm 
 

Exigence wrote:
But then I'll see the tracklisting for [insert extreme band here]'s new album and it's like "Jeez...are you guys still pissed at this stuff?"


It's not that -- it's that it failed. You say fuck religion, then people go make a religion of money, "science", entertainment, whatever.

The real demon is harder to name.

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