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Exigence
Age: 28 (Wait, what?!)

Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2005 2:42 pm
Posts: 819
Location: New Orleans
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 2:28 pm 
 

Ok, so since I've been living on my own for 10 years now....I haven't really had to encounter that many religious people. Yeah, it's on the news and I see friends for Sunday football who just 'got out of mass' but I never think much of it. It doesn't interfere with my life or bother me in the slightest.

But then I'll see the tracklisting for [insert extreme band here]'s new album and it's like "Jeez...are you guys still pissed at this stuff?"

How many times can you say 'fuck god' and have that be your main motivating artistic factor? How can you, yourself, not get bored with that.

So to older folks, are you as burnt out as I on this continued aggression towards organized religion. To me its a dead horse and possible evidence of stunted psychological development. Is there nothing else to write about?

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Thexhumed
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Jun 22, 2010 2:26 pm
Posts: 496
Location: Chile
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 2:45 pm 
 

I guess that adolescents still buy it. They need to canalize their anger toward something, and religion is the easiest thing to hate.

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AppleQueso
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Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2009 11:02 am
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Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 2:48 pm 
 

Religion does still have a pretty big impact on society...

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Atropus
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2013 3:02 pm
Posts: 679
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 2:59 pm 
 

I know, and I guess it all depends on where you live.....
It was infuriating for me having to read this constant moaning and bitching about Christianity and Jewish conspiracies on black metal forums while living in Japan. Seriously????

Despite a few selective Buddhist/Shinto/Christian rituals and festivals, Japan is truly one of the most atheistic, agnostic, nihilistic, and utterly materialistic countries on earth, to the point where I simply had to get out and pray at the local Shinto shrine every day for a break from the utterly miserable corporate money-worship I'd have to deal with at the office every day......

I still think that to this day, a lot of extreme metal is specifically aimed at alienated western youth, whose cultural enemy every day is still Christianity, either from familial or peer pressure.

But like everyone else, you do grow up, you do "escape" it, and sooner or later you start to prefer music that's FOR something and not just AGAINST everything.
That's probably why I took a break from metal for awhile and lingered around the goth/industrial/dark ambient scenes, coming back to metal when I realized I identify with the rebellious attitude and occult imagery of black/death metal the most.

While I still am generally against organized religion, or any other belief system that tries to impose itself upon or control people, I think it's much more important to develop a belief system and identity of your own.

What got me into black metal and metal in general wasn't just the anger and "anti-" attitudes, but mainly the dark, occult supernatural element. I found this in other genres too, but never so prevalent as in a good album by Burzum or Emperor.....

If it was only about being angry and "anti-" I might as well have just gotten into punk :-P

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Opus
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2002 11:06 am
Posts: 1759
Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 3:39 pm 
 

It's evolution; the more I learn, the more I object to religion in all its stupid forms. I'm 46.
It baffles me on a daily basis that people actually believe that nonsense, and it angers me that they will push it on everyone else to adjust accordingly.
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ShaolinLambKiller
King Asshole

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Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 3:57 pm 
 

I get bored on both ends. Not really by the music, that really doesn't bother me much at all.

But it's between what I see on facebook and google + I have friends on both ends and it's just as dull reading "thank god for this or that and stupid pics proving god's existence" and the complete otherside with "make fun of chistians, and stupid pics about how there is no god" It all sorta just blurs into the same thing from both of them.
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Littlewolf
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue May 01, 2007 4:18 am
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 4:04 pm 
 

I'd say it's a more of a convention, an unwritten law, a gimmick even for some bands to go on about Satan, evil, demons and such stuff, as is sort of expected of them (example - Gorgoroth), and if they didn't I'd be profoundly worried about them... :lol:
...and I must admit, it amuses me immensely...
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Ilwhyan
Metel fraek

Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 1:41 pm
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Location: Finland
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 4:13 pm 
 

Littlewolf wrote:
I'd say it's a more of a convention, an unwritten law, a gimmick even for some bands to go on about Satan, evil, demons and such stuff, as is sort of expected of them (example - Gorgoroth), and if they didn't I'd be profoundly worried about them... :lol:
...and I must admit, it amuses me immensely...

I wouldn't give a rats ass what garbage was spouted by whatever vocalist Gorgoroth will have for the next 18 months, if Infernus still wrote riffs like in Krig, Måneskyggens Slave, Huldrelokk or Bergtrollets Hevn.
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false_icon
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2005 7:52 am
Posts: 495
Location: France
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 4:16 pm 
 

Well, there's nothing wrong with being anti-organized religions. But saying "Fuck God" appears quite childish and not really productive.
Anyway I don't care much for the lyrics.
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iamntbatman
Chaos Breed

Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 5:55 am
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Location: Innsmouth
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 4:34 pm 
 

I'm more burnt out on metalheads who don't really like metal and just use it as background music for working out, personally.

Worship at the temple of the riff.
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Marag
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Location: down there where chaos prevails
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 4:46 pm 
 

I'm hardly old but I'm burnt out on all kinds of religious discussions. I guess I don't care enough about this to be a true Templar VVarrior Inqvisitor ov The Chvrche ov Satan and crush kristians with the righteous mighty hammer of sperged-out forum posts.

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Zodijackyl
Lazy Wizard

Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 5:39 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 4:48 pm 
 

Religion, especially Christianity as the dominant religion in the US, is a massive force against rational thought and logic that has been one of the ideological strongholds of the movements against modernizing our social welfare systems like the rest of the first world has. While not entirely organizationally complicit, religion is one of the major factors holding our nation back from social progress, primarily by indoctrinating a large portion of the population with the idea of obeying arbitrary "values" rather than those supported by rational thought, making them an ideal target for regressive propaganda funded by existing powers who wish to retain power/money. Religion teaches the entire basis of believing the "because ___ said so" bullshit that backs all of the lunacy in the country from the corporate welfare system to birthers and people who believe Obama is a Muslim and any other horseshit you'll hear if you listen to Fox News, Rush Limbaugh, or the rest of the media that panders to irrational conservative religious ears.

Are there more civilized/mature ways to respond to this? Well, are you looking for metal to offer civilized and mature alternatives? The lyrics of extreme music isn't exactly a place to try to articulate finite points, they're better suited to hammering the point as brutally and crudely as possible.

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Turner
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Aug 23, 2002 2:04 am
Posts: 1180
Location: Germany
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 4:56 pm 
 

my problem with anti-religious themes in metal is that they're rarely actually that - they're always just thinly disguised anti-establishment sentiment, and almost always immature. as an atheist (hell, a *new* atheist) i can appreciate a good stab at the concept of religion, the church, superstition, etc etc, but these bands never actually do that. the quality of anti-religious metal never rises above "THE CHURCH IS RESPONSIBLE FOR MANY WARS AND ALL PRIESTS ARE PEDOPHILES!!!", which, let's face it, is pretty fucking weak. no one gets a medal for pointing out the church's flaws any more - it's just flogging a dead horse.

another thing that kills it for me is how these guys go to great lengths to rant and rave about how evil and silly religion is, then they just replace it with either satanism or germanic paganism. "time to reclaim the OLD religion!" ha, fucking brilliant, idiot. you've put it all on the line to attack the (usually catholic) church (big risk in western countries btw, you fucking trailblazers) but then get caught up in your own adolescent imagery and an even more outdated medieval superstition? *sarcasta-clap*

(an aside to this is the faux-intellectualism of "satanic" bands like mayhem and gorgoroth, with their gothic airs, goblets and catchphrase latin. fuuuuuuuuuck off.)

which i guess brings it to this in a more restrained comment: the absence of any real deep thought in anti-religion metal leads me to think that it's aimed mostly at 17 year old boys (a given) but also that it's probably written by uneducated idiots who have no real understanding of what they hate or why. it's a very small variation on "fuck you mum & dad, i'll stay out all night if i want!" and it takes a special kind of idiot to write that crap past their mid-20s. and there are a LOT of extreme metal bands out there whose members are all in their 30s at least....

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tomcat_ha
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Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 8:05 am
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Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 4:57 pm 
 

ah yes but is there more anti religious metal coming from the US?
i dont really have that feeling that that is true.

i think a lot of bands just like to write satanic lyrics because they find it fun and really having a band is all about having fun when you strip it all down no?

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Zodijackyl
Lazy Wizard

Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 5:39 pm
Posts: 4862
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 5:04 pm 
 

Turner: Well said, the quality of the lyrics is often poor, regardless of the validity of the sentiment. Perhaps my statement more addressed whether or not there was reason to be angry at religion, not how most bands present it.

tomcat_ha wrote:
ah yes but is there more anti religious metal coming from the US?
i dont really have that feeling that that is true.


Not so much coming out now, but I completely understand why anyone living in the south, Florida, or other places that tend to "vote red" would be angry about religion to the point of shouting about it in their music.

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Marag
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Location: down there where chaos prevails
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 5:09 pm 
 

Turner wrote:
these bands never actually do that. the quality of anti-religious metal never rises above "THE CHURCH IS RESPONSIBLE FOR MANY WARS AND ALL PRIESTS ARE PEDOPHILES!!!", which, let's face it, is pretty fucking weak. no one gets a medal for pointing out the church's flaws any more - it's just flogging a dead horse.

One of the main reasons why I think this stuff is annoying. I can appreciate bands that offer a different perspective, like Ayat, or GBK's mocking of jewish traditions, but the anti-catholic/christian rhetoric of most bands is beyond trite and overdone. Every high-school kid nowadays shares these sentiments, no one in the west except conservative Americans will be impacted by your "cutting edge" criticism, and your music likely won't reach them. I'd much rather take over the top and vulgar blasphemy lyrics like the ones of ImpNaz because those are fun to read at least.

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Sick6Six
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:01 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 5:15 pm 
 

Some bands lyrics are a lot better than others these days. I don't like to talk about religion so I just have a Satan fish on my car.
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Exigence
Age: 28 (Wait, what?!)

Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2005 2:42 pm
Posts: 819
Location: New Orleans
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 5:21 pm 
 

There is also the whole deal of preaching to the choir. Everybody buying a Gorgoroth album is already on the same satanic page.

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Turner
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Aug 23, 2002 2:04 am
Posts: 1180
Location: Germany
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 5:22 pm 
 

that's not a page, that's vellum!

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droneriot
RETIRED

Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 1:17 pm
Posts: 5240
Location: Germany
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 5:23 pm 
 

I'm not bored with it at all, but I think that has to do with the exposure I have to it. I listen to almost no black metal at all, the death/doom I listen to often has abstract themes that have nothing to do with religion, the death metal I listen to has all kinds of lyrical themes and only like a tenth of it deals with religion, the drone/doom I listen to either has no vocals or when it does I have not a clue what the lyrics are supposed to mean :), and the trad doom I listen to, well, you tell me, do Vitus, Pentagram and Pagan Altar have overt anti-religious themes? Or Trouble? :lol:

Anyway, my point is, anti-religious lyrics appear in like 2% of the metal I listen to, and when they do I not only have no problem with them, I enjoy an occasional dose of it.
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Opus
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Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 5:32 pm 
 

It's not like the religious idiots are very eloquent in their rhetoric, AND the pedophile priests STILL has an unlimited number of get out of jail free cards.
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Foulchrist
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2006 3:25 pm
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Location: Scotland
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 5:43 pm 
 

I'm bored with shitty anti-religious lyrics the same way I'm bored with shitty gore lyrics. If they're uninteresting, derivative, cliche and more or less exist for the sake of conforming to what is expected of whatever genre we're talking, they tend not to raise an eyebrow, no matter what the topic is.

Some lyrics do manage to make an impact however, and if they happen to be anti-religious, that's going to resonate well with me because, whether the topic is overdone or not, I still oppose religion and I'm still going to enjoy lyrics if they're well crafted and reflect beliefs similar to my own.

Attitude and execution. Boring bands with boring lyrics are going to be boring, no reason to write off the theme entirely.
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Sick6Six
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 5:54 pm 
 

^Agreed. Some anti-religious bands can create interesting and obscure lyrics without spamming Satan 10 times per song, those are usually the better bands for the most part.
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Doomed Cowboy
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Joined: Fri May 03, 2013 8:21 pm
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 6:04 pm 
 

One thing I see is that the people I know who really get into all the anti-religion stuff tend to have, what I would consider, odd reasons for hating religion. Out of those I know, the ones who hate it the most are the ones who got mad at mommy and daddy for grounding them because they had sex at 12 or some other reason that really seems foolish. On the other hand, those I know who came to the decision to not be religious through a thought process based on science or philosophy really don't give a fuck what anyone thinks or practices.
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droneriot
RETIRED

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Location: Germany
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 6:17 pm 
 

When it comes to anti-religious lyrics in metal I guess I am the only one in this thread who prefers the crude and pissed-off stuff over the "deep" and "thoughtful" stuff.
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Desperta_Ferro
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Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2010 6:45 am
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Location: Argentina
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 6:30 pm 
 

As a christian, I was always bored by the two sides, the preachy stuff and the anti-religious stuff. Yeah, you love/hate Jesus, whatever, man.

I don't mind, and I may actually enjoy, the crude and vulgar approach. The pseudo intellectual is just insufferable.

For the record, THIS I like

Spoiler: show
CRUSH THE MESSIAH, RIP HIS FUCKING HEART OUT
DESECRATE THE CORPSE OF THE NAILED SCUM
FISTFUCK THE MOTHER OF THE CRUCIFIED ONE
RAPE HER CORPSE ONE THOUSAND TIMES

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Atropus
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2013 3:02 pm
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Location: Canada
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 6:35 pm 
 

I think religion as something personal can be positive. I only oppose it when it becomes organized and forced on to people.

As for black metal, most of the lyrics themselves were about dark gothic fantasy themes, and very little about religion. Themes about being the black wizards, and lost forgotten sad spirits, and hungry Transylvanians, and some guy called "Blashyrkh". Most of the anti-religious stuff was outside music, and generally a reaction by a bunch of angry 17-year old boys towards the conservative Christian atmosphere in Norway.
The more directly anti-Christian lyrics came from later bands like Graveland, Marduk, and Judas Iscariot, all whom I tend to listen to only for the music.

As for Satanism, paganism, etc. like I said, religion isn't necessarily bad of it's something that's chosen and not forced. I just tend to find occult themes fascinating in general: music, art, literature, etc
Like droneriot said, I prefer how doom metal and dark ambient focus more on abstract Lovecraftian themes and whatnot.
What's worst are bands who suggest replacing Christianity with something like Nazism. That's like replacing alcoholism with a cocaine addiction.
For me, metal is all about rebellion, anti-authoritarianism, and individualism, yet here we have Varg Vikernes preaching the same kind of conservative bullshit as my catholic great grandmother!!

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AcidWorm
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 6:52 pm 
 

Move to the bible belt Exigence and you will find how hard it is to ignore religion. I would often have strangers come up to me trying to sell Christianity to me. A lot of people take Christianity very seriously and there are churches everywhere for various sects of Christianity. Even some people at work would occasionally preach to me.

I don't have a problem with Christianity but I cannot have an intellectual conversation with people whose beliefs are based on their religion. I can't argue how something is good or not good for society or an individual when all I get in response is "it's in the bible" or "it's a sin". A lot of people I would come into contact with would bring God or Jesus into things they say. This doesn't bother me but it is there making it hard to ignore religion.

Unless you live under a rock you will see that religion plays a very big roll in politics even though the constitution makes a clear separation between church and state. Kinda hypocritical when the Republican party tends to be the strict constructionists yet they are the ones that struggle with maintaining a separation of church and state.

With all that said a lot of bands go for rebellious lyrics by nature as a lot of people see that as being one of the things metal is about, and of course anti-Christianity is one of the major rebellious themes. Anti-Christianity has also been heavily ingrained in metal culture particularly since the first wave of black metal and since then has been the main theme for black metal. Of course bands are going to keep this as a major theme in their music.
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Foulchrist
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Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2006 3:25 pm
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Location: Scotland
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 6:56 pm 
 

droneriot wrote:
When it comes to anti-religious lyrics in metal I guess I am the only one in this thread who prefers the crude and pissed-off stuff over the "deep" and "thoughtful" stuff.


Absolutely not! Most of the anti-religious metal I listen to falls under the "crude and pissed-off" category, mainly because I find it carries the attitude a lot more convincingly, or at least tends to be more fun.

But whether it's "primitive" or "thoughtful", I'm not too fussed, as long as it has some sort of impact. There's plenty of limp and effortless examples of the former, and pretentious, dull examples of the latter. I'd still take bad simple lyrics over bad "deep" lyrics any day.
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FrigidGround
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Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 6:58 pm 
 

Yes, it's become incredibly stale, which is why Extol's new work is the freshest-sounding shit I've heard in a very long time. I can't think of anything more butthurt-inducing to metal nerds than a band that writes lyrics consisting solely of worship of Christ, all the while getting rave reviews (as they should) from pretty much everybody who is mature enough to acknowledge and accept the fact that some people have different worldviews.

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droneriot
RETIRED

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 7:00 pm 
 

The worship of Christ is fresh-sounding and not incredibly stale? Where have you been the last 2,000 years?
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Zodijackyl
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 7:01 pm 
 

droneriot wrote:
When it comes to anti-religious lyrics in metal I guess I am the only one in this thread who prefers the crude and pissed-off stuff over the "deep" and "thoughtful" stuff.


Some lyrics are enjoyable on their eloquence alone, but I find that a lot of the deep/thoughtful stuff is just dumb lyrics with big words. I love some broken English black/thrash and I find that some of the crudest/simplest lyrics are the most charming and fitting.

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FrigidGround
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 7:07 pm 
 

droneriot wrote:
The worship of Christ is fresh-sounding and not incredibly stale? Where have you been the last 2,000 years?


You're right, what extreme metal really needs is another "FUK UR gOD" attitude.

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Foulchrist
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Location: Scotland
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 7:08 pm 
 

Zodijackyl wrote:
but I find that a lot of the deep/thoughtful stuff is just dumb lyrics with big words


Agreed. When I feel like I'm looking at the result of several hours spent scouring a thesaurus, with obscure occult jargon sprinkled over it, I am immediately uninterested. Put some fucking balls in those lyrics!
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droneriot
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 7:12 pm 
 

FrigidGround wrote:
droneriot wrote:
The worship of Christ is fresh-sounding and not incredibly stale? Where have you been the last 2,000 years?


You're right, what extreme metal really needs is another "FUK UR gOD" attitude.

Instead of evading the question with a poor strawman you could just tell me, as I asked, how on Earth the worship of Christ is fresh-sounding and not incredibly stale. Do you have any idea how many songs about Jesus Christ there have been in the past few centuries? I don't think anyone could even begin to count them.
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FrigidGround
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 7:18 pm 
 

droneriot wrote:
Instead of evading the question with a poor strawman you could just tell me, as I asked, how on Earth the worship of Christ is fresh-sounding and not incredibly stale. Do you have any idea how many songs about Jesus Christ there have been in the past few centuries? I don't think anyone could even begin to count them.


Most Christian metal bands write lyrics that don't directly address the worship of Christ, they'll rather focus on spiritual troubles, problems with the church, etc. Extol wrote what is essentially a progressive death metal praise album, and they pulled it off flawlessly without coming across cheesy. Also, I'm aware that there a lot of Christians in the world.

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Empyreal
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 7:24 pm 
 

FrigidGround wrote:
droneriot wrote:
The worship of Christ is fresh-sounding and not incredibly stale? Where have you been the last 2,000 years?


You're right, what extreme metal really needs is another "FUK UR gOD" attitude.


Right, because there's NOTHING in between "worship of Christ" and "FUK ur GOD" right? No way that Satanic or anti-religious lyrics can be done intelligently? Plus your whole reason behind this is that you want to see metalheads get butthurt; yeah, I can tell you're a real paragon of intelligence. :roll:

As to the thread well I am not that old, but yeah, anti-religious stuff does get pretty passe. I think Turner's post covered everything I would have said. Lots of bands don't dig that deep and instead just fall back on cliches. Satan ruling the Earth is fun when it's a cheesy horror-movie thing; not so much when you get Immolation and other bands like them acting like it's the most serious thing ever. I'd rather have bands write thought provoking lyrics questioning things, rather than just outright condemning. The ones that do are always nice to see.
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FrigidGround
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 7:33 pm 
 

Empyreal wrote:
Right, because there's NOTHING in between "worship of Christ" and "FUK ur GOD" right? No way that Satanic or anti-religious lyrics can be done intelligently? Plus your whole reason behind this is that you want to see metalheads get butthurt; yeah, I can tell you're a real paragon of intelligence. :roll:


It takes a lot more balls to release something pro-Christian than something anti-theistic these days. Metalheads getting butthurt usually signifies someone shaking things up, and super-conservative "true metal" fans will almost always be against innovation. Mgla and Katharsis are two of my favorite bands, but that's because their music survives the phase where "fukking tha vergin hooorrrr" just doesn't cut it as interesting anymore. Also, the idea of people in north America or western Europe still that mad about religion is pretty laughable.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 7:41 pm 
 

Pro-christian bands do the exact same thing you criticise anti-theistic bands for though, they release music with lyrics that 1) require no effort to write because everything is already written out for them (and has been for many centuries), and 2) has a built-in audience that will buy anything with such lyrics regardless of the quality of the music. Yet one thing is better than the other? That doesn't make any sense. And it "takes balls" to release something that requires no effort and has a huge built-in audience? How? And "innovation"? What? Metal bands have had Christian lyrics for as long as metal existed...
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 7:50 pm 
 

FrigidGround wrote:
Empyreal wrote:
Right, because there's NOTHING in between "worship of Christ" and "FUK ur GOD" right? No way that Satanic or anti-religious lyrics can be done intelligently? Plus your whole reason behind this is that you want to see metalheads get butthurt; yeah, I can tell you're a real paragon of intelligence. :roll:


It takes a lot more balls to release something pro-Christian than something anti-theistic these days. Metalheads getting butthurt usually signifies someone shaking things up, and super-conservative "true metal" fans will almost always be against innovation. Mgla and Katharsis are two of my favorite bands, but that's because their music survives the phase where "fukking tha vergin hooorrrr" just doesn't cut it as interesting anymore. Also, the idea of people in north America or western Europe still that mad about religion is pretty laughable.


:lol: It does not take balls to release something pro-Christian. Maybe if you mean exclusively to a metal underground audience, but even then only a small fraction of them would really get as "butt hurt" as you claim, and are not the primary audience. Most metal fans are much more moderate people and much less inclined to get angry than this ridiculous strawman you're creating of metalheads as immature cro-magnons who only like music with a "fuk ur god" message to it. For someone who claims to be so into innovation and "fresh" music, you sure don't seem to know much of anything.
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