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kalervon
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2012 10:43 pm
Posts: 991
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2015 11:33 pm 
 

HamburgerBoy wrote:
The whole fantastical/bombastic/proto-power metal thing has always been Dickinson's area, while Smith was more into writing more crunchy and accessible/pop-tinged ones.
It has been mostly Harris' area.
HamburgerBoy wrote:
Just look at the difference between Powerslave or SSOASS (both dominated by Dickinson's influence) compared to Somewhere in Time (the one with no writing from him and the most contributions from Smith).
Dianno fans complain about the change in sound between Killers and the rest of Maiden's career. They complain about the pop-tinged songs that Smith co-wrote (22 Acacia Avenue, The Prisoner). Some people have no idea that Smith's influence, not Bruce's, is behind these songs.

Again, calling on to my original intervention, I never said that Maiden's change in sound had little to do with Bruce Dickinson joining the band: I said that Bruce did not change the sound; Harris did expand on the styles he had been exploring as a result of having a more capable singer in the band, and that contributed to the band's change of sound. It's in Mick Wall's book, Martin Birch says "I simply didn't think [former vocalist Paul Di'Anno] was capable of handling lead vocals on some of the quite complicated directions I knew Steve wanted to explore... When Bruce joined, it opened up the possibilities for the new album tremendously".

Iommi says something similar in his autobiography; when Ozzy was in the band, Iommi knew that there were certain things he could not do with Sabbath; Ozzy would not be able to sing in a different style. When Dio joined Sabbath, one could say Dio changed the sound a bit (in addition to Iommi changing the sound now having a singer like Dio); because when you compare Heaven and Hell and Mob Rules with some of the Rainbow stuff you can hear some similarities in the direction. But Samson doesn't sound much like the direction that Maiden would take with Bruce.

Hence I would not say that Bruce changed the band's sound on Number of the Beast, but Harris as a songwriter did, and Adrian Smith also did, both in different ways. The sound evolved in time and yes, when Dickinson started writing his own songs he contributed further to the evolution of Maiden. But usually it's the Smith songs which Dianno fans are quicker to make fun of, and it's probably easier for them to think that Bruce is the sell-out in the band who wanted to make them commercial. While it's more complex than that.

----

Celestial Season really changed when Sonic Orb came out. I was immediately disappointed with this EP and though I found some of their later releases were enjoyable, I think Solar Lovers (1995), their second album, was and still is their best. It is relatively soft, and contains much more violin than their contemporaries, but I have a soft spot for this album. It was quite a change in a small amount of time from pseudo-symphonic doom metal to barely psychedelic rock; I bought Sonic Orbin 1996 and it was a completely different vibe. Only the singer had changed.

Other doom bands who ended up doing something different, like Anathema, My Dying Bride, had more of a gradual shift. Celestial Season's was overnight.
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chaossphere
Metal Lunatic

Joined: Sun Nov 10, 2002 11:49 pm
Posts: 2578
Location: New Zealand
PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2015 1:20 am 
 

Fact #1 - If DiAnno had stayed in Iron Maiden they would have run into a creative brick-wall due to his extremely limited range and become another also-ran band. Also keep in mind that he contributed fuck all to the songwriting. He has, what, two songwriting credits on the first two albums, and probably only contributed some minor ideas.

Fact #2 - DiAnno is a bitter, whiny old cunt who still can't get over having been kicked out of Iron Maiden, yet continues to cash in on the legacy of the first two albums. His voice is now completely shot to hell and he still refuses to give up and get a real job.
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TheTrueSeker
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2010 9:55 pm
Posts: 329
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2015 1:49 am 
 

I really like post-A Black Moon Broods over Lemuria Bal-Sagoth quite a bit, but I always have wanted to hear another album in that idiosyncratic style.

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Kveldulfr
Veteran

Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2012 12:01 pm
Posts: 3698
Location: Nowhere
PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2015 9:17 am 
 

chaossphere wrote:

Fact #2 - DiAnno is a bitter, whiny old cunt who still can't get over having been kicked out of Iron Maiden, yet continues to cash in on the legacy of the first two albums. His voice is now completely shot to hell and he still refuses to give up and get a real job.


This is true. I saw DiAnno once and my summary of the whole thing was this:

1-He can't sing for shit. His vocals are totally done and I guess it's the lack of a proper job what pushes him to keep going swallowing up the shame of being so terrible as a singer - which I'm sure he knows.

2-He hasn't moved on from Iron Maiden. At the show he kept saying things between songs like 'ok, this song we did back in the ol' good days' and other similar things that implied his time with Maiden was the best ever of the band (I guess that's also part of selling the product).

3-He's not nice at all with fans. The guy barely paid attention to people and avoided at all costs any interaction with the fans before and after the show.

Getting in topic, Borknagar's debut fits well here. Excellent black metal album with great production, aggressive riffing and drumming and awesome vocals. While TOD is probably their best album ever, the debut is also really good, even if sounds too raw compared to the rest of their albums.
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