The little giant in the sky would be 82 next week if he was still alive. I sometimes wonder if he would still be out there rocking the horns if things had gone differently.

When I started reading the forum I guessed that what was popular here would be popular in the metal world, but that's not really the case, most of the stuff that is listened here is pretty underground and not many people know the bands that are often praised here. We are a niche crowd indeed, sometimes I like to talk about the mainstream scene in metal because is not a theme that is much discussed here.



Is the worst piece of audio shit that I have listened to, at least this year. I think it says a lot about how Gen Z consumes media and the Tik Tok generation way of listening to music, this pastiche of nu metal, deathcore, trap and ultra polished production to the level that it's sugarier than a Beyonce album. What is funny to me is that while we have practically ignored this kind of stuff in the forum, this shit is the most successful stuff that metal has to offer to the mainstream, the kids are watching and buying this stuff.

They're welcome to.... it's business as usual. There has always been more underground stuff and more mainstream stuff. That's okay. The stuff we as a forum are generally in to will continue like it always has, and the population at large will continue to be oblivious to it.

The same way you could post a Bon Jovi song and say "I think it says a lot about how gen X consumes media and the MTV generation way of listening to music, this pastiche of rock, pop and ultra polished production to the level that it's sugarier than an ABBA album". I don't see why anyone should be so concerned. Shitty popular music will always continue to be popular and shitty, so why pay attention to it?

Well, technically, it's the only album of that line up as Bill Ward played on H&H but not on the other Dio-Iommi-Geezer (which I'll call D.I.G which is appropriate because I DIG all of them) albums, but I get what you mean. Heaven and Hell is my favorite Sabbath album and favorite album with Dio on it, but the other D.I.G albums aren't far behind. Dehumanizer and Devil You Know are overly ignored.

I want to be one of those people who thinks Heaven & Hell is the best ever, but it has two very mid tracks keeping it from being a 10: Walk Away and Wishing Well.

Unpopular Metal Opinion, 8 May 2024:
• Cannibal Corpse hasn't written anything good since Gore Obsessed.

I can’t think of a counterexample for the bigger bands, but there are some smaller who have released a slew of good to great albums without disappointments.

"Wishing Well" is one of the band's masterpiece, IMO. I know I'm in the minority there, but it's a classic to my ears.

No. Its really not. Its really not. Metal is supposed to be a gang. a Mafia. We are the dons, they are the soldiers.

Please tell me this is another one of your bukkake posts and you're not serious.

I'm with you. Personally, I always felt Lady Evil was the weak track. Predictable and boring. The rest of H&H kills.

"Lady Evil" was always one I liked a lot. There's a really visceral, heavy feeling to that one, a great groove and bass line, and the lyrics are really delivered with conviction...

"Walk Away" and "Wishing Well" aren't the best ones on there but both add to the flow and they're perfectly fine, enjoyable rockers. It all goes together really well.

I always like Lady Evil a lot too. The second I hear the title, the bass and vocal lines start rolling through my mind.

I've always thought Turn Up the Night is a stronger opener than Neon Knights.

Interestingly (considering I count "Wishing Well" as among their best tunes), I've always considered this the weakest song on "Mob" (or perhaps 'least awesome' is a better description). I still like it a lot, but just prefer everything else over it. This includes "Slipping Away" which doesn't seem to be well-liked by most Sab fans.

Slipping Away is excellent. In some ways I prefer Mob Rules to H&H but its pretty much on a day by day basic.

"Slipping Away" is fun, but somehow it always feels a bit off or awkward. Either the song itself is just missing something, despite being catchy, or it's something in the flow of it with the album - not really sure. It's always just a bit jarring. But I do like that that album has a kind of scrappy, ruffian sort of vibe to it, not as polished as H&H.

I love Heaven and Hell and Dehumanizer.
The Mob Rules? Not so much. I find it quite average. 'Falling Off the Edge of the World' is a great song, though. Awesome riff.

Rainbow's self titled, debut album is the best thing Dio and Blackmore ever did in their careers anyway. H&H might be the best Sabbath album, I think it is; but for Dio as a musician, and Blackmore as a genius and the closest metal guitarist to God that there has ever been, that one is their magnum opus. It's not even up for discussion, although it may be unpopular.

Also Neil Young is the best guitarist of all time, holy fuck...

not even off topiuc because Neil is metal as fuck

I'll be honest, I don't even like Heaven & Hell that much. The title track and Children of the Sea are classics, sure. Neon Knights is good, and the last track shows us Iommi improving as a lead guitarist bigtime.
That's... four tracks. Four good tracks does not make a perfect album. Other than than the flangy guitar tone is annoying, there's a lot of cheesy AOR-ish production choices, and as much as I like Bill Ward as a drummer, that album is not one of his more inspired performances. The drugs and booze are audible at this point.

Mob Rules (which has a drummer who was frankly better than Ward was in the early 80s) leaned more into malevolent pummeling heavy metal for heavy metal's sake, and it's all the better for it. Some people think it's completely mediocre and that H&H is Dio's masterpiece, which is pretty much the exact inverse of my take. Oh well.

Holy Diver and Last in Line, while fairly basic musically, are some of my most played albums ever because they're Dio leaning into the 80s with no vestigial 70s elements. They're just so much more urgent and exciting than Rainbow - Rising or Heaven & Hell or whatever for me.

It's the recurring lead part in that opener that makes me air-guitar every time.

Slipping Away is great too, Wishing Well not to the same extent.

It's a close call between H&H and Mob Rules and I can't seem to take a lasting decision on which one I prefer - the answer is always Dehumanizer or Headless Cross

The master of the one note solo.... He's a decent enough rhythm player but I've never listed to a Neil Young song and though this is some great guitar playing.

I guess how much one likes Heaven and Hell depends on how much one can tolerate AOR elements. I don't actively seek it, but I don't mind a bit of AOR mixed in with my metal which is probably why I don't see "Walk Away" and "Wishing Well" as significantly weaker like some do. It's not like Sabbath never attempted to make catchy, heavy hard rock before with Ozzy. I think "Wishing Well" and "Walk Away" both have great Iommi-esque textures in their guitar parts and to my ears, they can easily stand shoulder-to-shoulder with some of the more classic standouts from that album.

Since Holy Diver has been brought up, I like that album a lot, but one song I never really cared for that much is "Shame on the Night". To my ears, it sounds like Dio trying to replicate the slow, crushing closers that he helped make on the two Sabbath albums he just sang on at that point, but missing the mark pretty significantly. Campbell is certainly no Iommi.

Turn Up The Night is easily the weakest song the Dio line up ever penned and doesn't even compare to Neon Knights. I actually rate Mob Rules very highly but my goodness does it start inauspiciously.

The debut over Rising? Really?

I agree it sticks in your head, just not in a good way imo. It feels really straight forward and boring, like they just threw it together one afternoon. This doesn't seem to be a very popular opinion, so I guess I'm in the right place.

I mean, the verse is okay, but I can't stand the chorus and I'll take any of the other tracks over Lady Evil. I think the album would be stronger without it.

I re listened to TDYK yesterday to check if my assessment it's the best Dio-Sabbath album and...

Fuck, it's waaaay better than that. The riffs are so crushingly heavy, dark and doomy. It's probably the doomiest album they did together, which I would've guessed put it pretty high on people's lists. It feels more like a Black Sabbath album than H&H (which is amazing in it's own right).

Sonja and Haunt are painfully generic overrated bands.

I've always like Neon Knights a lot more.... What really saves Turn Up the Night, as someone else already pointed out, are the recurring leads.

I agree that Wishing Well and Walk Away are weakER tracks than the rest on H&H, but not weak at all on their own merits.

Slipping Away is pretty cool, but perhaps a bit too simplistic, and like Empy said, perhaps breaks the flow of all the epicness we're in the middle of in that point of the album.

I haven't heard Sonja but I agree about Haunt. Like the stale crackers of retro-metal.

What other bands have the kind of songwriting and guitar playing Sonja does?

Konquest are leagues in front of Sonja. They are the worthy disciples of Heavy Load.

Mamorlis

Iron Griffin

Spell

Can't agree about Konquest. It's all pretty passable and pleasant but I don't hear anything really that great about this. Pretty good vocals, some solid riffs, not a lot beyond that. Heavy Load's new album from last year is leagues beyond this in terms of identity as a band, hooks, everything really. This is fine but just doesn't really grab me - just doesn't have the extra factor of compelling, unique songwriting to take it beyond a pretty good listen.

Iron Griffin are OK but not really a standout in any way - nice bass playing and vocals, some good riffs, but it isn't something I feel like I'd go back to. Just sounds like they're another band in a sea of them. Boring fantasy lyrics too - no point of view, no real good writing on there. Potential for sure, maybe at some point they will have something really awesome.

Not hearing any of the cool songwriting ideas Sonja does at all in these, nor the interesting lyrics and point of view that really tie any good band and album together.

Mamorlis... pretty fun stuff, nice chunky Slough Feg-ish thing going, totally apples and oranges with Sonja though.

Spell I had meant to check out... digging it for sure, nice riffs, some cool gothy vibes. I like it. Doesn't erase Sonja either though, there's room for a lot of cool bands!

Haunt has some really cool lead work and is very energetic live, but I feel like they pump out too many songs too soon when they'd benefit from working on their writing more. Vocals could also use some work. The mid-paced Haunt stuff actually sounds pretty similar to Sonja, which happens to be their weaker material.

Haunt is really hit or miss for me. They have a few really good tracks but a lot is kinda forgettable. Fun live though.

Pretty typical for where mainstream metal is at: produced within an inch of its life. Not a single amp or actual drum involved in making of it, it's no different from modern pop or dance music in its approach. It is what it is, luckily this shit isn't on my radar.

Let's also not forget that the frontman is an abusive rapist shitlord and the guest vocalist is a nazi.

I had to google both of these because I know nothing about them. Ron really seems like a piece of shit in many ways, but it looks like there was no evidence of rape from what I read...though from everything else I read it would not be surprising either.
Alex also seems like a piece of shit, but personally I need a little more evidence than a black sun tattoo.
EDIT- I found an article where he's talking about running with nazi crowds, so yeah he probably is too.


Every time I see the thumbnail for that song I cringe...so bad.