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ApochWeiss
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Dec 13, 2009 5:32 am
Posts: 390
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 5:41 am 
 

Back in 2000 I happened on a little album called Criteria for a Black Widow by Annihilator. It was suggested to me during a rough patch in my life and kept me from doing something stupid. It also shaped me to be the man I am now. I connected with it, and found a group of people who wouldn't push me around or knock me down. I found acceptance in a community of people who considered me the same as I considered them: Brothers.

Fast forward ten years and I'm watching the culture I dedicated so much of myself to divide and dissolve. It seems there's no brotherhood any more. I'm watching idiots go to shows and spout off false information, calling legends in the field no talent hacks, and spurning people crying out for help to branch out or discover new bands. And god forbid someone doesn't like a band, that person is immediately spat on, shunned, and stomped in the pit if possible.

Am I the only one watching one of the most crucial elements of metal go down the drain? Why are we fighting amongst ourselves? Isn't it supposed to be about the music? The message? Sharing kick ass experiences? Or is it about high school grade preppy pissy parties on par with that of the entitled cunts on My Super Sweet 16 about how more elite of kvlt you are and how superior a metalhead it makes you over someone just learning.

I've gone to as many shows as I could because of my brothers. I've experienced an insane amount of bands great or otherwise thanks to my brothers. I've grown to develop appreciations for styles and bands I simply couldn't tolerate thanks to my brothers. And now some of the metal sisters out there are stepping up as well, and they seem to be far more mature than most of the men these days that I'd normally turn to for advice, suggestions, or help inside and out of the metal genre.

How did we go from helping each other experience great Metal and incorporate it into our lives if need be to demeaning and bashing those who want to experience the glory that is this style of expression?

...may the bashing begin, but I seriously wanna know what happened. Legit post. I can't be the only one who feels this way anymore.
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matras
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2007 6:01 am
Posts: 870
Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 5:50 am 
 

My theory is that you've just grown older; grown up. Because I've seen this since the 80s.


And "brothers"? Did you forget about the "sisters" that are into metal?

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ApochWeiss
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Dec 13, 2009 5:32 am
Posts: 390
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 5:57 am 
 

Where I live, there are very few female metal fans. I've only seen women getting into it here over the past 5, maybe 6 years. A few I knew personally for a good 12 years, but only recently got into metal thanks to the growing metal band population here.

That's why I mention them towards the end of the post ;) Not knocking them in any way, and if it seemed that way, sorry, wasn't the intent.

Also, yeah, could very well be age, or perhaps the deathcore movement. I've been to shows with bands like Born of Osiris and I swear to Christ these are some of the most oblivious fans in the world...
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Ohrwurm
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Apr 15, 2013 1:47 am
Posts: 412
Location: Amsterdam, The Netherlands
PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 6:30 am 
 

That's why most of my metalhead friends are 35+, eventhough I'm 22. I do run in to the younger generation at my local metal bar, and I know some of them by name and enjoy a beer with them, but they're mostly just huge dicks. They're the types that wear skinny jeans and leather vests without anything under it, so yeah, dicks.
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Sokaris
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2004 2:33 am
Posts: 1093
PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 6:42 am 
 

Honestly the scene here is way stronger than it was ten years ago from my perspective. Much higher quality music, more shows, way less drama. That's ranging from high school dudes to guys from the tape-trading days. Things where I'm at are better than ever actually.
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lord_ghengis
Metal freak

Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2006 8:31 pm
Posts: 5376
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 7:28 am 
 

Every time I read the term "metal brothers" I throw up, I am currently in danger of drowning.
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Cianan
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat May 06, 2006 10:40 am
Posts: 220
Location: Foothills of the Adirondacks
PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 8:00 am 
 

I've never really been into the metal community or anything other than this site, but even here I don't really interact on the forums much. I like a broad range of music so I go to a broad range of shows and meet various people. However I don't really make friends based on a certain type of music so I've never really cared to delve into the "scenes" because in all honesty I only give a shit about the music that I enjoy.
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ENKC
Veteran

Joined: Fri Feb 29, 2008 7:28 pm
Posts: 2708
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 8:01 am 
 

"Isn't it supposed to be about the music?"

You say that like it's supposed to be about anything. Metal is whatever the individual wants it to be.
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ShaolinLambKiller
King Asshole

Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2007 6:10 pm
Posts: 11878
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 8:01 am 
 

I hate the term metal brothers or metal sisters. Just because we listen to the same music doesn't mean we have any bond. It's like pop fans going around hugging up each other because they both like Lady Gaga or some shit.

And honestly, it's you. There hasn't been a time since I started listening to metal back in the early 90's that wasn't as you decribed later on happening. There was always every shouting about this and that. There was always fighting. Like literally it's been the same. The friendships I've formed might have started with a common interest in the music but if that's all you have to base your friendship on then it'll kinda fall to pieces rather quickly.

Best way to deal with that is not be concerned and just do your own thing and enjoy your music that you do cause that's honestly the point. Not anything else buy enjoying some tunes because you enjoy them and not because there's some society of people you want to be associated with.
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Porman
Sweek Souvlaki Muncher

Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2005 5:00 pm
Posts: 1513
Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 8:06 am 
 

What the OP described is called elitism. That's something that always been around, though back when I was 20-25 it was more or less the black metal scene that was responsible for this.

Now, it's everywhere...

Quote:
You say that like it's supposed to be about anything. Metal is whatever the individual wants it to be.


Sorry, but in Sweden it's far from whatever the individual wants it to be.

Short hair? Poser
Don't like certain bands? Poser
Etc.
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somefella
Veteran

Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 11:57 pm
Posts: 2537
Location: Singapore
PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 8:10 am 
 

I'm going to chime in along with not bothering to associate myself with anyone in "the scene" simply because it all feels lame to me, and I don't like lame very much. Nearly everyone in every scene I've ever known or seen is in it just to get attention for their band, or for themselves(hey yall im the biggest Marduk fan in ____!"

http://noisey.vice.com/blog/reasons-why ... for-idiots

This is a nice article that sums up why you should just listen to whatever you like and play whatever you like and drink lots of craft beer.

EDIT: Oh don't get me wrong about the drinking bit in the article; I drink quite regularly. Just with my actual friends and not at those ridiculous scene parties where everyone is hammered on shitty vodka and blasting Behemoth's Demigod over the speakers.
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Last edited by somefella on Mon Jan 20, 2014 8:24 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Scorntyrant
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 5:55 am
Posts: 1080
PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 8:18 am 
 

"back in 2000"

That's part of the problem right there. Maybe it's the accelerating years/time dilation aspect of getting older - I was going to say "that's just a couple of years ago" until I counted backwards and realised it's nearly 15 years. But my recollection was that that was a very poor time for metal - lots of circus keyboard BM, laboured "avant garde" shit, ATG ripoffs, shitty BDM stuff. Outside of Canadian/Australian stuff I went way off what was going on.

Also, Manowar is not real, there is no "Metal Brotherhood". It's (IMO) a contrarian sentiment - I dont want to be part of something predicated on giving bro-hugs to white-trash retards. At 35 years of age, as I am now, I think it would be really sad to put stock into what strangers think because they were able to purchase a couple of CD's from a shop. Divided we stand and all that eh.
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lothariel
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Jul 13, 2013 5:20 am
Posts: 32
PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 8:26 am 
 

I used to see my fellow metal heads as brothers, Until I got ripped off.

Don't trust anybody.

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Terri23
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2010 3:53 am
Posts: 2089
PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 8:27 am 
 

OP, grow older gracefully. Don't be that sad old bastard that reminisces on "the good old days". Appreciate what you had when you were a kid. Your friends have grown up, married off, had kids, and don't party as much as they used to. It's life, deal with it.
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inhumanist
Metal freak

Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2011 5:09 pm
Posts: 4263
Location: 50 Forts Along The Rhine
PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 8:49 am 
 

Porman wrote:
What the OP described is called elitism.

There's elitism and then there's being a dick about it.
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Porman
Sweek Souvlaki Muncher

Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2005 5:00 pm
Posts: 1513
Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 8:52 am 
 

Isn't that basically the same thing?
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inhumanist
Metal freak

Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2011 5:09 pm
Posts: 4263
Location: 50 Forts Along The Rhine
PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 8:57 am 
 

Depends how you define elitism. If the value of art depends purely on taste then all art-elitism is wrong per se. But I don't think it does since I believe to have some sort of valuable insight which the majority lacks - making me an elitist. Doesn't mean I have to be condescending towards people.
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If Summoning is the sugar of fantasy metal, is Manowar the bacon?
CorpseFister wrote:
Personally, I prefer to know nothing of the esoteric hierarchy of MA and the profane rituals required to attain rank.


Last edited by inhumanist on Mon Jan 20, 2014 9:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Porman
Sweek Souvlaki Muncher

Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2005 5:00 pm
Posts: 1513
Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 9:10 am 
 

If the value of art depends purely on taste then all art-elitism is wrong per se.

This.

Personally, I loathe some of the bands an individual that is into metal is supposed to listen to. I find them crap!
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inhumanist
Metal freak

Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2011 5:09 pm
Posts: 4263
Location: 50 Forts Along The Rhine
PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 9:15 am 
 

If you don't differentiate between personal taste and artistic value then art critique is impossible.

Edit: I just realized that this discussion is headed straight into the realm of philosophical principles/semantics, which is both tiring and off-topic, so I propose that we end it here.
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If Summoning is the sugar of fantasy metal, is Manowar the bacon?
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Abominatrix
Harbinger of Metal

Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2003 12:15 pm
Posts: 10180
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 9:59 am 
 

To the OP...Without meaning to imply that this is a horrible, negative thing...it's you.

Now, this doesn't really have to be a problem. Everyone has a threshold of tolerance. The "metal community" is not nearly as homogenous as some people like to believe, I think, not only in terms of the kinds of folks who get into this music (and become serious about it for any length of time), but it's reflected in the sorts of personalities that gravitate to metal music, shows, and whatever other elements of the subculture you choose to take in.

Inevitably, over time, you're going to be bothered by things people say, and do. If you get to the point where you stop caring so much about what people think and just carry on with your life, appreciating your friends (metalheads and otherwise) and going to shows when you feel like it, you'll be a happier person. There's no "metal community concensus"; it's debate and argumentativeness that, in a way, feeds the subculture. Now I know a girl who punched a guy in the face one time at a show because he said he didnt' like Sodom, but really, that kind of thing rarely happens and usually it's in jest; nobody generally gets hurt or seriously crushed by that sort of thing..most guys just laugh and say "fuck off", and then it's over. If you're starting to feel the "walls" of the community are closing in on you because your friends and acquaintances are somehow disrespecting you or your tastes, maybe it's time to take a break (for however long you need), or find some new friends. Or, just develop stronger resilience, you know?
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Frank Booth
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2012 9:29 pm
Posts: 249
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 10:03 am 
 

Whenever I see someone crying "elitism", it usually boils down to "they said that a band I liked was bad and so I got needlessly rude and hostile and got a proportionate response". Everyone will probably wind up liking some bad bands at some point while they're still getting into metal, and they'll eventually be told that those bands are bad. It happened to me multiple times, and you know what I did? I shut my mouth and listened. I let the more knowledgeable people guide me. I did NOT shut them out and go "WAAAAHHHHH FUCKING ELITISTS YOU'RE KILLING THE SCENE" the minute they tried to offer any sort of constructive criticism, and so I never experienced any bad reactions. That's the problem with a lot of people getting into metal today. They don't fucking learn and they have horrible attitudes wholly unconducive to learning, and so they keep their bad taste and never grow. Also, before you make some comment about being an old grump yelling at you damn kids to get off my lawn, keep in mind that I'm 21 and started listening to metal when I was around 13 or 14. I'm still relatively new to this; it's just that I did my homework and wasn't a fuckhead while I was developing my taste.

Yes, there will be dicks and stuck-up elitist jackasses in metal. Every genre has them. In metal, however, most alleged cases of elitism are just groundless ad hominem attacks from people with an aversion to learning or accepting opinions contrary to their own.

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Abominatrix
Harbinger of Metal

Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2003 12:15 pm
Posts: 10180
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 10:11 am 
 

That's generally true. And perhaps people who have been around for a while have sort of earned the right to be elitist in their tastes. Such things never really hurt anyone, don't stifle discussion or music itself, and are generally just a sign of growing older/becoming more discerning.
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FasterDisaster
OMG WAT DOES THIS CAPS LOCK KEY DO

Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 2:08 pm
Posts: 6341
PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 10:17 am 
 

lord_ghengis wrote:
Every time I read the term "metal brothers" I throw up, I am currently in danger of drowning.

I used the term "metal race" at one point early in my posting career here. I regret it to this day.
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Exigence
Age: 28 (Wait, what?!)

Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2005 2:42 pm
Posts: 804
Location: New Orleans
PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 10:27 am 
 

I'm 28 and have been 'into metal' since about age 15 or so, which is average. I've lived in 4 major cities in the states, seeing both local and big shows off and on. From what I could tell, 'scenes' were just bands promoting themselves and their friends, alcoholics or junkies always at the same bars and a few randoms like myself. It was never anything I wanted to a part of after dipping my toes in the first few times. Like, I was on metal forums for a year or so before ever seeing my first big metal show, so I was sold on that whole metal brotherhood thing and couldn't wait to actually see it in person.

I don't know. It just never felt comfortable to me. This also hampered the bands I played in for years because I had no interest in socializing with the other local groups. It seemed like they were doing it for one reason, and I was doing it for something completely different.

I've seen all the classic bands and then I've been in pits at violent underground shows. It serves as a goofy escape in some respects but I'd never think of it as a full time lifestyle. I just don't have that obsessive, collector mentality. I can take and leave most things. "Yeah, that was fun, what's next?"

The weird online stuff that spawned 'kvlt' and all that nonsense will always repel me though. I'm far more pop-minded when it comes to music, even when it comes to extreme bands.

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Samoroth
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Jul 18, 2007 2:59 pm
Posts: 207
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 10:49 am 
 

lord_ghengis wrote:
Every time I read the term "metal brothers" I throw up, I am currently in danger of drowning.


Haha, same here. I care only about the metal underground, but in the end, people are people and I don't necessary feel more connected to metalheads than to other people. Also, every so often I see people on here, but also on some other metal boards who just ask for 'black metal' band lists etc, while many other people and me included, discovered the genre and bands by themselves. These days most bands are just a mouse click away (sadly) so it's not hard to find bands anyway, but the sad thing about this is, that every idiot could just download 'the essentials' and think they are black metal fans ( or whatever other genre) overnight.


Last edited by Samoroth on Mon Jan 20, 2014 11:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Frank Booth
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2012 9:29 pm
Posts: 249
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 10:59 am 
 

Yeah, the concept of "metal brethren" is pretty retarded. It's not like we're fucking soldiers here. We're fans who occasionally get together to go to shows, drink beer, and have fun. This "us against the world" stuff can fuck right off. It's not like we're living in a country where being a fan is far harder or outright illegal. If you go to shows while armed conflicts are occurring literally right outside the venue or something equally major, then you can call yourselves something like "brothers". If that's not the case, then you need to stop before you make yourselves look any more ridiculous.

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Abominatrix
Harbinger of Metal

Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2003 12:15 pm
Posts: 10180
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 11:05 am 
 

While I agree that the whole "brotherhood" thing can be overdone by drunk guys who just want to hug you and constantly "cheers" you with their drinks, I don't really see what the big deal is..if people want to bond over having a good time at a show/party/with fellow musicians/whatever, I don't see anything inherently ridiculous about that. At the end of the day you might still have a lot of disagreements over almost anything, but I don't really see how a sense of camaraderie, even if a temporary one inspired by a moment of happiness, can be a bad thing.
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Frank Booth
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2012 9:29 pm
Posts: 249
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 11:09 am 
 

Abominatrix wrote:
While I agree that the whole "brotherhood" thing can be overdone by drunk guys who just want to hug you and constantly "cheers" you with their drinks, I don't really see what the big deal is..if people want to bond over having a good time at a show/party/with fellow musicians/whatever, I don't see anything inherently ridiculous about that. At the end of the day you might still have a lot of disagreements over almost anything, but I don't really see how a sense of camaraderie, even if a temporary one inspired by a moment of happiness, can be a bad thing.


I'm talking less about happy drunks getting huggy and people having fun and deriving a sense of camaraderie from those experiences and more about people who use it in a context to suggest that metal is under siege and that they're trying to defend it against all odds like they're oppressed. That shit annoys me to no end.


Last edited by Frank Booth on Mon Jan 20, 2014 11:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Samoroth
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Jul 18, 2007 2:59 pm
Posts: 207
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 11:13 am 
 

Abominatrix wrote:
While I agree that the whole "brotherhood" thing can be overdone by drunk guys who just want to hug you and constantly "cheers" you with their drinks, I don't really see what the big deal is..if people want to bond over having a good time at a show/party/with fellow musicians/whatever, I don't see anything inherently ridiculous about that. At the end of the day you might still have a lot of disagreements over almost anything, but I don't really see how a sense of camaraderie, even if a temporary one inspired by a moment of happiness, can be a bad thing.


It's just the 'fellow metal brothers and sisters thing which annoys me'. It's just something that doesn't exist.

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Pippin_Took
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2008 8:28 pm
Posts: 598
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 11:23 am 
 

Samoroth wrote:
Abominatrix wrote:
While I agree that the whole "brotherhood" thing can be overdone by drunk guys who just want to hug you and constantly "cheers" you with their drinks, I don't really see what the big deal is..if people want to bond over having a good time at a show/party/with fellow musicians/whatever, I don't see anything inherently ridiculous about that. At the end of the day you might still have a lot of disagreements over almost anything, but I don't really see how a sense of camaraderie, even if a temporary one inspired by a moment of happiness, can be a bad thing.


It's just the 'fellow metal brothers and sisters thing which annoys me'. It's just something that doesn't exist.

It always makes me think of Matt Barlow's stage banter on Iced Earth's Alive in Athens...which is a terrible thing to be reminded of.

"Brothers and sisters of ATHENNNSSSSS-UHH!" :ugh:

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Smoking_Gnu
Chicago Favorite

Joined: Sat Mar 15, 2008 11:22 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 11:42 am 
 

Pippin_Took wrote:
It always makes me think of Matt Barlow's stage banter on Iced Earth's Alive in Athens...which is a terrible thing to be reminded of.

"Brothers and sisters of ATHENNNSSSSS-UHH!" :ugh:


I don't mind the whole "Brothers and sisters" thing at live concerts since it just feels like a way to get the crowd pumped up for that particular show. People who take it too seriously in daily life are grating, as others have mentioned, but I think it works in the concert setting.

I think the OP's experience may have something to do with the spread of the internet and digital distribution these days as well; if there's such a low barrier of entry to the music and the scene you're going to get a lot more "fairweather fans," so to speak, as opposed to people who feel more close-knit because they put so much time and effort into the "scene." And there's nothing wrong with that either - it's that very ease of accessibility, as a few people already said here, that's bought a lot more fans together and thus lead to greater success for the bands themselves. Occasionally dealing with less desirable folk is a small price to pay for that, especially since most people don't even care about that in the first place.
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Abominatrix
Harbinger of Metal

Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2003 12:15 pm
Posts: 10180
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 11:46 am 
 

Samoroth wrote:
Abominatrix wrote:
While I agree that the whole "brotherhood" thing can be overdone by drunk guys who just want to hug you and constantly "cheers" you with their drinks, I don't really see what the big deal is..if people want to bond over having a good time at a show/party/with fellow musicians/whatever, I don't see anything inherently ridiculous about that. At the end of the day you might still have a lot of disagreements over almost anything, but I don't really see how a sense of camaraderie, even if a temporary one inspired by a moment of happiness, can be a bad thing.


It's just the 'fellow metal brothers and sisters thing which annoys me'. It's just something that doesn't exist.



How can one be annoyed by something that doesn't exist? :P

I get that Manowar for example sings that sort of stuff in their music, but well, that's their thing...is it really worse than writing songs about hating people and wanting to kill them? :lol:

Still everyone should know that the best metal song about metal is called "Metal" and was written by manilla Road....
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Kveldulfr
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2012 12:01 pm
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Location: Chile
PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 11:54 am 
 

I think some people is criticizing something that they simply didn't live and that's not totally fair either.

The concept of brotherhood comes from past times we were actually under some kind of siege. I mean, metal was underground and seen as something truly evil/satanic and stuff, so attending gigs and stuff was really hard compared to these days. Even to organize gigs was hard cause no one wanted to rent places for evil things.

The world was different 30 years ago. It was way more conservative thus images like Eddie or Rotten Zombies on shirts were almost forbidden (I as a teenager had arguments with my parents cause I used those blasphemous shirts). Cds were expensive so cassettes ruled. There was no Internet so the main ways to get music were :to buy stuff from a store or a guy or trading/copying them. For both things you needed to get your ass on the street and meet people (this fact alone makes a HUGE difference than today's standards). Metalheads were way less than today so in your average city you more or less knew the ones who were into metal, since metal was not that massive, few places were available where to drink a beer and listen metal.

Even the enjoyment of new releases was different. Someone got the new album of x band and all friends reunited to listen to it. This doesn't happen today.

Yeah, now you can get everything in 2 clicks but those more primitive days had their charm as well.

I don't think metaldom is dying at all. Now the scene is way bigger than before, there are more gigs, more music available and sites like this one reunite people from all the world to share metal in all forms.
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Frank Booth
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Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2012 9:29 pm
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 12:05 pm 
 

Kveldulfr wrote:
I think some people is criticizing something that they simply didn't live and that's not totally fair either.

The concept of brotherhood comes from past times we were actually under some kind of siege. I mean, metal was underground and seen as something truly evil/satanic and stuff, so attending gigs and stuff was really hard compared to these days. Even to organize gigs was hard cause no one wanted to rent places for evil things.

The world was different 30 years ago. It was way more conservative thus images like Eddie or Rotten Zombies on shirts were almost forbidden (I as a teenager had arguments with my parents cause I used those blasphemous shirts). Cds were expensive so cassettes ruled. There was no Internet so the main ways to get music were :to buy stuff from a store or a guy or trading/copying them. For both things you needed to get your ass on the street and meet people (this fact alone makes a HUGE difference than today's standards). Metalheads were way less than today so in your average city you more or less knew the ones who were into metal, since metal was not that massive, few places were available where to drink a beer and listen metal.

Even the enjoyment of new releases was different. Someone got the new album of x band and all friends reunited to listen to it. This doesn't happen today.

Yeah, now you can get everything in 2 clicks but those more primitive days had their charm as well.

I don't think metaldom is dying at all. Now the scene is way bigger than before, there are more gigs, more music available and sites like this one reunite people from all the world to share metal in all forms.


What you described is largely not applicable in this day and age. There are still parts of the world where it is still very relevant, yes, but being a metal fan is generally so much easier now that "us against the world" posturing just seems incredibly stupid and juvenile.

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Abominatrix
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 12:27 pm 
 

Good post, Kveldulv; I think that's really it.

And there's not really a reason why it can't be like that today, either. Granted, adversity tends to make people unite and forge strong bonds, but so can positive things.

The most important thing, i muss say, is to leave people be to discover their own path and do what they need to do. Not everyone is going to spend loads of time on the internet looking for new music. Hell, I think people around here often forget that still nowadays a good many people don't even have the Internet...it doesn't mean they're any les dedicated to music than those of us who spend our time eating up the hours on Metal-archives or similar sites.
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DeathfareDevil
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 12:45 pm 
 

Frank Booth wrote:
What you described is largely not applicable in this day and age. There are still parts of the world where it is still very relevant, yes, but being a metal fan is generally so much easier now that "us against the world" posturing just seems incredibly stupid and juvenile.


That's probably why he used the past tense to describe it.

I can already see a generational breakdown happening in this thread, and I expect that fault line to become ever more apparent as we go. Music and friends aside, being a metalhead in the 80s, especially as a teenager, pretty much sucked, as people informed solely by mass media tended to treat you like either a criminal or the incarnation of evil. This is not an exaggeration. You were singled out by authority figures on a regular basis. Total strangers would either mock you or want to talk to you about finding god. If you had friends that weren't into metal, they "worried about you." Can you imagine getting into heated arguments with your parents over which music you listened to? Hell, some parents wouldn't even let their kids hang out with you if you were a metalhead. People were seriously afraid of metal; it wasn't seen as the comedic novelty that it is today (another gripe of mine, but I digress). Those old clips of the Geraldo show or whatever sure look goofy now but at the time they were a good reflection of how everyone saw you: a walking disruption.

So yeah, I can see where the "brotherhood" aspect came from, and you're right, it isn't necessary today. It's just antiquated.

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Abominatrix
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 12:52 pm 
 

DeathfareDevil wrote:
Frank Booth wrote:
What you described is largely not applicable in this day and age. There are still parts of the world where it is still very relevant, yes, but being a metal fan is generally so much easier now that "us against the world" posturing just seems incredibly stupid and juvenile.


That's probably why he used the past tense to describe it.

I can already see a generational breakdown happening in this thread, and I expect that fault line to become ever more apparent as we go. Music and friends aside, being a metalhead in the 80s, especially as a teenager, pretty much sucked, as people informed solely by mass media tended to treat you like either a criminal or the incarnation of evil. This is not an exaggeration. You were singled out by authority figures on a regular basis. Total strangers would either mock you or want to talk to you about finding god. If you had friends that weren't into metal, they "worried about you." Can you imagine getting into heated arguments with your parents over which music you listened to? Hell, some parents wouldn't even let their kids hang out with you if you were a metalhead. People were seriously afraid of metal; it wasn't seen as the comedic novelty that it is today (another gripe of mine, but I digress). Those old clips of the Geraldo show or whatever sure look goofy now but at the time they were a good reflection of how everyone saw you: a walking disruption.

So yeah, I can see where the "brotherhood" aspect came from, and you're right, it isn't necessary today. It's just antiquated.


We still get some of that today. Certainly the people wanting to talk to you about god and such. And I live in a fairly progressive (well, according to some) city.

But this is kind of interesting; a friend of mine says he wants metal, horror culture, and the like to be perceived as dangerous again. He thinks the adversity and hatred/lack of understanding from elsewhere helps the community to thrive and produce great things. I don't entirely agree that it's necessary but he raises an interesting point.

Also I think it's a mistake to believe that everything will just become more open and easygoing as time goes on. What can be perceived as "unnecessary" and "antiquated" might suddenly become important again in a few years. Social change does tend to happen in circular patterns and not on a straight upward climb. It remains to be seen how much effect technology will really have on that cyclical nature.
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John_Sunlight
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 12:55 pm 
 

I think so. It is reaching crisis levels of self awareness and sensitivity.
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joppek
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Joined: Sun Jan 09, 2011 7:36 am
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 1:04 pm 
 

DeathfareDevil wrote:
I can already see a generational breakdown happening in this thread, and I expect that fault line to become ever more apparent as we go. Music and friends aside, being a metalhead in the 80s, especially as a teenager, pretty much sucked, as people informed solely by mass media tended to treat you like either a criminal or the incarnation of evil. This is not an exaggeration. You were singled out by authority figures on a regular basis. Total strangers would either mock you or want to talk to you about finding god. If you had friends that weren't into metal, they "worried about you." Can you imagine getting into heated arguments with your parents over which music you listened to? Hell, some parents wouldn't even let their kids hang out with you if you were a metalhead. People were seriously afraid of metal; it wasn't seen as the comedic novelty that it is today (another gripe of mine, but I digress). Those old clips of the Geraldo show or whatever sure look goofy now but at the time they were a good reflection of how everyone saw you: a walking disruption.

So yeah, I can see where the "brotherhood" aspect came from, and you're right, it isn't necessary today. It's just antiquated.


i'm not sure that applies outside of america - i remember an interview of maiden where they were talking about the first time(s) they went to the other side of the atlantic and they were bewildered at how seriously everyone took them as something satanic, when they were just having a laugh
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DeathfareDevil
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 1:27 pm 
 

This is a tangent but there's an interesting book that discusses why certain societal movements based in the supernatural become perceived as "dangerous." It focuses on the "ritual satanic abuse" scandal of the 80s -- which got blurred into the territory of metal music, as you can imagine -- but the underlying theories could be applied to the arts. The most fascinating angle of the book, as I recall, is that as children we have immediate access to this entire fantasy world of myths, fairy tales, daydreams, imagination, which all seem anything but surreal -- very real, in fact -- but as we become adults we shed our connections to most of it. Our children, however, create an uncertainty in us by being in touch with that strange fantasy realm we experienced as a first-person, possibly solipsistic phenomenon; it gets transformed into an identifiable third person narrative, an objective reality, in some ways. Thus in times of duress we might be unable to differentiate the real from the unreal, culturally speaking.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/1573929352/

If metal is gonna be dangerous again it'll need to create some serious societal uncertainty, or capitalize on some other emergent social anxiety.

joppek wrote:
i'm not sure that applies outside of america - i remember an interview of maiden where they were talking about the first time(s) they went to the other side of the atlantic and they were bewildered at how seriously everyone took them as something satanic, when they were just having a laugh


We kind of have a history of trembling at our own shadows, especially when we feel threatened by what we perceive as immorality.

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